Updated BMS Available Why?

[Master Blaster]

I see there is a new 12V BMS available, part# LX6Z-10C679-C from the Ford parts dept.
replacing previous part#s LX6Z 10C679B; LX6T-10C679-BG; LX6T10C679BG; LX6Z 10C679B; LX6Z-10C679-B; LX6Z10C679B; LX6Z10C679C

My BMS happens to be the third one on the list of older BMS units.

I am also aware that Ford has recently issued a CSP to replace all the BMS units in the Mach-e and F150 Lightning vehicles, to fix a problem with it under-reporting the battery state. I suspect that this is also a problem on the Maverick, but I did not find a related CSP for the Maverick in a quick search.

I'm starting to see charging issues with my third battery in two years, so I'll be looking at a fourth battery shortly. Right now it looks like the 4-month-old battery is already damaged by sulphation, as it can only be charged to 35% (12.01V) through the BMS, and only to 40% (12.15V) with a 10A charger overnight. The truck is going to start going into deep sleep mode in a month or two.

Does anyone have the details on why the BMS part# was replaced?

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[colinl]

I don't understand your percentages, which I assume are state of charge, because they're quite low assuming you still have the stock enhanced flooded battery that your truck came with. Those look like SoC% for voltages on AGM and gel cell batteries, not flooded.

Did you install an AGM battery?

 

[HeyBales]

I love how Ford can't help but confuse things even more by using different terms in different places.

This is a battery sensor, it reports it's readings to the BMS, which appears to be run in the BCM.
Great to know new versions, since I'm betting the SW:5.6 on here can't be updated.

And I can't imagine the battery sensor doing SOC%, just reporting up voltage to the BMS to do something with it. Maybe there is a chip in there and it's actually a "module" doing more than just sensor readings. Maybe it tracks the cumulative charge/discharge figures and battery age and actually holds those values for reporting up.

As to being off - I've proved that now with a new battery
Measured and Ford PID Morning resting voltage - 12.62 V.
By any FLA table that would be 100% SOC, or nearly.
Ford PID for SOC said 84/85%. (bouncing between, so figure it's 84.5 and it can't round)
This gives new meaning to the PID about 85% charge level limit - that's probably for when float charge starts, or is supposed to if battery can take the higher amps earlier.

Those almost sound like Ford PID SOC readings - which never held any consistency to the resting voltage in the morning.
I'd have 11.8 V, and 53% SOC.
Then I'd have 12.1 and 48% the next reading after a rest.
Though those are much lower %, and should be kicking off DSM already.

I really think Ford is making up their SOC figure based on other readings, but not the industry standard.

Great find that they are dealing with similar systems - always wondering if the reading were accurate.
Obviously the 85% isn't.

 

[Master Blaster]

I don't understand your percentages, which I assume are state of charge, because they're quite low assuming you still have the stock enhanced flooded battery that your truck came with. Those look like SoC% for voltages on AGM and gel cell batteries, not flooded.

Yup, they're really low, especially considering that this was their brand new upgraded factory EFL battery installed under warranty only in May. Two months old and its already shot.

https://footprinthero.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Lead-Acid-Battery-Voltage-Charts-Image-10.jpg

Did you install an AGM battery?

Nope, its a factory EFL. I also have a 10-year-old gel cell in the back seat for emergency use, and it holds a 100% charge (12.65V) even though its really old and only gets charged once every half year or so.

 

[colinl]

Yup, they're really low, especially considering that this was their brand new upgraded factory EFL battery installed under warranty only in May. Two months old and its already shot.

https://footprinthero.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Lead-Acid-Battery-Voltage-Charts-Image-10.jpg



Nope, its a factory EFL. I also have a 10-year-old gel cell in the back seat for emergency use, and it holds a 100% charge (12.65V) even though its really old and only gets charged once every half year or so.

that chart data would be correct, or closer to it at least, for AGM. look here for correct data & charts:
https://cleversolarpower.com/lead-acid-battery-voltage-chart-12v/

your SoC at 12.01V is more like 55%.

 

[BlueSpec1]

I'd guess the Ford shunt type BMS Sensor functions like Bosch & Continental sensors, except the Bosch EBS sounds better on paper than Ford BMS actual performance on their vehicles.

Bosch electronic battery sensor (EBS)
Continental Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS).

Bosch Mobility EBS:
High measurement accuracy for Voltage, Current and Temperature.
Integrated battery state detection:
The algorithm delivers precise, reliable information on current and predicted battery state.

The electronic battery sensor (EBS) measures the current, voltage and temperature of 12V lead-acid batteries with great precision.
The battery state detection algorithm (BSD) integrated into the EBS calculates the current and predicted state of charge and function of the battery from these base parameters and indicates battery aging effects. This information is passed on to a higher-level control unit, e.g. the electrical energy management (EEM) system

The SOC indicates how much power is available. Using the SOC, the electrical energy management system (EEM) in the main control unit regulates ancillary load to optimize battery life and fuel consumption.

The SOF predicts the influence of the load profile on the voltage curve. Based on the SOH value, battery aging effects and their influence on the battery's capacity to store energy and its power output are calculated.


Continental IBS:
Provides the battery’s State-of-Charge (SOC), State-of-Health (SOH), State-of-Function (SOF).

NXP Intelligent Precision Battery Sensor MM9Z1_638 - Product Training

 

[ZABSMAV]

I see there is a new 12V BMS available, part# LX6Z-10C679-C from the Ford parts dept.
replacing previous part#s LX6Z 10C679B; LX6T-10C679-BG; LX6T10C679BG; LX6Z 10C679B; LX6Z-10C679-B; LX6Z10C679B; LX6Z10C679C

My BMS happens to be the third one on the list of older BMS units.

I am also aware that Ford has recently issued a CSP to replace all the BMS units in the Mach-e and F150 Lightning vehicles, to fix a problem with it under-reporting the battery state. I suspect that this is also a problem on the Maverick, but I did not find a related CSP for the Maverick in a quick search.

I'm starting to see charging issues with my third battery in two years, so I'll be looking at a fourth battery shortly. Right now it looks like the 4-month-old battery is already damaged by sulphation, as it can only be charged to 35% (12.01V) through the BMS, and only to 40% (12.15V) with a 10A charger overnight. The truck is going to start going into deep sleep mode in a month or two.

Does anyone have the details on why the BMS part# was replaced?

Wish Ford would hire competent engineers to solve the chronic undercharging of the Maverick hybrid 12v battery. Your results sound typical.

 

[colinl]

Wish Ford would hire competent engineers to solve the chronic undercharging of the Maverick hybrid 12v battery. Your results sound typical.

running the gas engine would solve it but obviously would impact mpg and people would notice, and they would complain.

 

[Master Blaster]

running the gas engine would solve it but obviously would impact mpg and people would notice, and they would complain.

Actually, no, it doesn't fix the problem. The BMS does not care which power source it is getting its charging current from. I've driven 500km and then had a low-battery alert overnight.

 

[ZABSMAV]

running the gas engine would solve it but obviously would impact mpg and people would notice, and they would complain.

How would running the internal combustion engine more have ANY impact on the chronic undercharging of the 12v battery?

The Maverick hybrid does not have an alternator powered by the ICE.

 

[ZABSMAV]

Actually, no, it doesn't fix the problem. The BMS does not care which power source it is getting its charging current from. I've driven 500km and then had a low-battery alert overnight.

Exactly. So many people on here are in such denial that their Maverick could have the chronic undercharging problem and deep sleep problem.

 

[colinl]

How would running the internal combustion engine more have ANY impact on the chronic undercharging of the 12v battery?

The Maverick hybrid does not have an alternator powered by the ICE.

duh.

so, except for regeneration, how does the high voltage battery charge? the ICE spins the generator. since the Maverick hybrid HVB is so tiny, it actually has to have a sufficient charge in order to be able to charge the 12V.

of course, even if the HVB has sufficient charge, then the BMS has to tell the HVB to charge 12V this could be part of the issue as well.

it's an overall failure of Ford to balance the line between mpg and battery charging. all their vehicles undercharge the 12V battery, deep sleep is by no means unique to the maverick hybrid. tons of people in F150s complain about it.

 

[HeyBales]

I'd guess the Ford shunt type BMS Sensor functions like Bosch & Continental sensors, except the Bosch EBS sounds better on paper than Ford BMS actual performance on their vehicles.

Bosch electronic battery sensor (EBS)
Continental Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS).

Bosch Mobility EBS:
High measurement accuracy for Voltage, Current and Temperature.
Integrated battery state detection:
The algorithm delivers precise, reliable information on current and predicted battery state.

The electronic battery sensor (EBS) measures the current, voltage and temperature of 12V lead-acid batteries with great precision.
The battery state detection algorithm (BSD) integrated into the EBS calculates the current and predicted state of charge and function of the battery from these base parameters and indicates battery aging effects. This information is passed on to a higher-level control unit, e.g. the electrical energy management (EEM) system

The SOC indicates how much power is available. Using the SOC, the electrical energy management system (EEM) in the main control unit regulates ancillary load to optimize battery life and fuel consumption.

The SOF predicts the influence of the load profile on the voltage curve. Based on the SOH value, battery aging effects and their influence on the battery's capacity to store energy and its power output are calculated.


Continental IBS:
Provides the battery’s State-of-Charge (SOC), State-of-Health (SOH), State-of-Function (SOF).

Since accurate Voltage and SOC% should only be after the charging has stopped awhile and surface charge dissipated, I'm wondering if it's as simple as trusting those reading as given while the truck is being driven, and applying charging strategy based on them.

Or perhaps the chip in them has some compensation already applied. Or is supposed to but doesn't. Or is badly done compared to newer chips.

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