The long arm of the . . . Hybrid and EV road tax fees likely coming to you. [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[KeinoDoggy]

I will only say this. “Thank God I live in Florida!!!”

Thank God I don't live in Florida!
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/florida-senate-weighs-tax-hike-ev-owners

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[KeinoDoggy]

I just did a calculation for Georgia, which has a 29.1 cent per gallon tax. If you drive 10,000 miles at 30 mpg, you pay just under $100 on gas taxes. At 20 mpg you would pay about $145 in gas tax. That makes an annual fee of $100 to $150 reasonable for a full EV.

unless like a lot of retired folks that drive much less than 10,000 miles/yr. Like me.

 

[GPSMan]

This is exactly my point... a maximum annual tax of $550 is laughable when you consider the amount of stress an 80,000 vehicle places on the roadways and bridges compared to the average passenger vehicle.

Taken One to One, an 18 wheeler puts 4,400 pounds of weight on the road fully loaded, 3300 pounds half loaded, and 2200 pounds per tire, unloaded, while a car or light pickup puts 1100 pounds per tire.

But there are 92 times (I looked it up) as many cars and light trucks on the roads than 18 wheelers. So taken COLLECTIVELY cars put more wear and tear on the roads than 18 wheelers.

 

[GPSMan]

This is exactly my point... a maximum annual tax of $550 is laughable when you consider the amount of stress an 80,000 vehicle places on the roadways and bridges compared to the average passenger vehicle.

Fun Fact:

The most stress ever placed on San Francisco's iconic Golden Gate Bridge was people. The day before opening day, it was open to pedestrians only.
The most weight the bridge ever held was opening day. Filled with people.

The arch of the roadway actually flattened out in the middle.

A bridge bumper to bumper with 18 wheelers still has a lot of empty space.

Ain't density a hoot?

 

[Maverick Life]

A road use fee seems like a fare way.

I laughed perhaps a bit more than most people would consider appropriate after reading this a few times. Whether intentional or not - thank you for this delightful one liner!

 

[maverick92]

Taken One to One, an 18 wheeler puts 4,400 pounds of weight on the road fully loaded, 3300 pounds half loaded, and 2200 pounds per tire, unloaded, while a car or light pickup puts 1100 pounds per tire.

But there are 92 times (I looked it up) as many cars and light trucks on the roads than 18 wheelers. So taken COLLECTIVELY cars put more wear and tear on the roads than 18 wheelers.

Except road stress is exponential to the 4th power and distributing weight per axle is a better model. All else being equal a 40 ton vehicle does not cause 20x the damage as a 2 ton vehicle. For a full loaded 5 axle truck, that is almost 4,100 times as much damage per axle compared to a car.

Here is a good article that discusses it in more detail:
https://www.insidescience.org/news/how-much-damage-do-heavy-trucks-do-our-roads

 

[GPSMan]

Seems to me with a hard brittle substance: Concrete for example.... it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, then it cracks. There's a definite breaking point.
We're not "sanding" our roads to death. We're not "wearing" them out.
We're cracking them.

So with trucks, weight per wheel/axle sure plays a role. But also USA has a habit of building roads too thin. We like rebuilding them over and over. Creates fat cats.

The light bulb that never burns out was invented in the 19th century. How many of you have one?

 

[ZachSD]

Why? Would it not be fair for those using the roads the most pay more than those that do not? Actually the only fair way would be for miles driven.

Most jobs are found inside cities where housing is the most expensive. As you move outwards, housing prices start to decrease. This means those who make the most are more than likely to live inside the city and thereby closer to work, and those who make the least are more than likely to live outside the city and further from work. Those making the least are now paying the most for their transportation via milage tax.

Good luck.

 

[Flight Test]

I will only say this. “Thank God I live in Florida!!!”

Thank God I live in Texas!

 

[WesM]

Not a bad idea on paper, but imagine the unintended consequence -- thousands and thousands of people driving on badly worn tires, killing themselves and others every time it rains or they get a blowout on the highway. It'd be mayhem. And all our insurance rates would go up, too.

good point, they would have to make it illegal to drive on tires past their rated life. Think of all the ticket revenue!

Honestly though I would be thoroughly against something like this. The gov already taxes electricity, as gas usage drops, electricity usage will increase. There is really no need for an increase in taxes, the gov just needs to figure out how to shift electrical tax revenue to road maintenance. Additional taxes on EVs are just a money grab if the electricity is already taxed.

 

[CZaugg]

I laughed perhaps a bit more than most people would consider appropriate after reading this a few times. Whether intentional or not - thank you for this delightful one liner!

Awe you caught that. Good for you. I was wondering if anyone would.

 

[rmay635703]

it makes sense for EV owners to pay road tax since they don't buy gas which includes a road tax in some amount. I might be wrong though but at least that's how they explained it in Georgia.

A hybrid isn’t an EV and regardless of how much joy ma fair share gives you are illegal violating equal protection laws.

Drivetrain and fuel economy are feigned differences that cannot be taxed.

The Sierra Club has gotten them overturned in one state, let’s hope they do the rest.

But there are 92 times (I looked it up) as many cars and light trucks on the roads than 18 wheelers. So taken COLLECTIVELY cars put more wear and tear on the roads than 18 wheelers.

This is false, modern highways are generally overbuilt for ~100,000lbs

The damage Weight does is an exponent like a rictor scale, more tires reduces damage but does not eliminate it due to being concentrated over a span (amongst other rather scientific factors)

Per the highway administration normal vehicles under 10,000lbs do not cause road damage, the amount is unmeasurable.

But for each doubling of weight you quadruple damage. That means that only freight and heavy movers do 100% of road damage.

It has been decided as a society that individuals are to subsidize freight as a common good, that is why most road funding comes from the general funds and not registrations or gas tax.

Roads should stay funded by general funds so both poor and rich can afford to drive.

The local ma roads folks say every man woman and child in the state would have to pitch in $10,000 each to cover infrastructure requirements, I don’t think it’s reasonable or workable to start front loading registrations to cover 35 years of insolvency.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

EA stations charge normal sale tax. I m not sure how fuel taxes work and I do not care much. Charging extra fees on EV and PHEV would encourage burning dinosaur juices. It sounds quite primitive.

Let's charge more fees on automobiles with ICE and steam engines. Horse riders pay no fees. It sounds like that.

How about an equal fee for those that USE THE ROADS and no fee for those that DO NOT USE THE ROADS (even if walking).

 

[rmay635703]

How about an equal fee for those that USE THE ROADS and no fee for those that DO NOT USE THE ROADS (even if walking).

It’s about $10,000 per person, how many folks couldn’t drive anymore?

 

[Hardening2753]

In Kentucky, highway fuels have always been taxed with those revenues going to a "road fund" toward highway maintenance. As automobiles have become more fuel efficient, lawmakers have kicked around ideas of boosting ever decreasing "road fund" revenues. Kentucky has decided to begin collecting an annual "electric vehicle ownership fee" of $120 from EV and hybrid owners at vehicle registration. (Here is a link to KY House Bill 8 with highlighted text concerning the topic: https://www.skofirm.com/publication...3, H.B.,year upon annual vehicle registration.

The reason for this thread is to provide information when trying to decide on EV/hybrid vs. combustion engine only vehicles. I don't know where you live, but you can bet all states will find ways to collect highway maintenance dollars from licensed vehicles regardless of type, so I wanted to share.

BTW, I'm scheduled for receipt of my 2023 Maverick XLT 2.0EB February 22 - 28, 2023, only 16 months after ordering.

Why not get rid of gas tax and put a milage tax

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