Running nonstandard oil?

[MaverickNoticer]

Is anyone out there running oil that is not the manufacturer recommended? (I believe they recommend 0w-20 in the USA)
Why? What are your observations?

The trend towards ultra low viscosity oil seems crazy to me.
5w20 or heavier used to be pretty standard for many vehicles.

The Motor Oil Geek on youtube has some interesting thoughts on the topic.


Kinda of makes me want to consider changing viscosities although I assume that voids your warranty instantly.

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[Dave O]

Sounds good unless he’s wrong

 

[HenryFord]

Is anyone out there running oil that is not the manufacturer recommended? (I believe they recommend 0w-20 in the USA)
Why? What are your observations?

The trend towards ultra low viscosity oil seems crazy to me.
5w20 or heavier used to be pretty standard for many vehicles.

The Motor Oil Geek on youtube has some interesting thoughts on the topic.


Kinda of makes me want to consider changing viscosities although I assume that voids your warranty instantly.

I like Lake, and I consume a lot of his content, but I think he is trolling a little bit here wearing his Tribologist hat/shirt and talking out of both sides of his mouth and he knows it.

You have to do some Paul Harvey here on this GM situation and now for the rest of the story. When asking GM if this recall and switch to 0w-40 applies to the 2025 vehicles with the 6.2L their response is NO, they pinpointed the defective parts that were supplied by 3rd party vendors and have replaced them with quality parts. The 2025's do not need to run 0w-40, they are back to running 0w-20. Lake knows this is a manufacturing problem that GM is trying it's best to keep the lawyers from eating their lunch. It isn't going to work. 0w-40 isn't going to address this and GM knows it, and Lake knows it. So get some popcorn and pull up a seat. It is going to get fun.

Keep diving into Lake's content and you will see everyone knows the driving reason for lower and lower viscosity oil is EPA and meeting the CAFE rules. To make that happen and still be effective at lubricating and wear it means advanced additive packages and tons of testing. The API Spec for API-SP moved the dial significantly in that direction. The latest API-SQ went into effect Mar 31st and it appears to be leveling up even more. They are proving that with the right additives and research they can provide the same level of protection once afforded only by higher viscosity oils. If low viscosity oils won't work then ask yourself why the racing oils being used right now are down in the 0w-16 range and lower? They have figured out how to make it work and it means more horsepower and faster cars on the track. Of course racing oils are not the same thing as the oil that you and I will be running for street vehicles, but the point being low viscosity oils can and are being made to work.

Look at the oil Lake is running in his daughters new Toyota. It is a factory 0w-8. Don't you think if he thought that a higher viscosity oil was the answer he would be using it? Why didn't he change it? He ran the oil analysis and the numbers look good. He had a 0w-16 in there at first until he could get his hands on a 0w-8 for the car. He just did an oil change on his wife's van. What did he put in it? Higher viscosity than the OEM spec? NOPE But he is experimenting and switched from Toyota OEM oil to Valvoline Restore and Protect and it appears to be working well so far, but it is OEM spec.

The real bottom line probably is this. The OEM spec for the oil is the place to be. Not all oils perform the same so it is up to you to do your homework and maybe do some oil sampling yourself to figure out which oils may work best for your own driving needs. The best additive packages are expensive and they each have their own characteristics that are both pros and cons. This is why it is so hard to get a straight up recommendation even from a seasoned Tribologist like Lake! There are too many variables. The chemistry needs to match the application.

Lake knows better than to feed the wildlife... But here he is! Just laugh and go back and review his other content and accumulate more data. That video is bad and he should know better! I hope this helped.

 

[Snox801]

Sounds good unless he’s wrong

He’s not if you know anything about him. Dude works for a piston ring company and runs an oil lab.

Dude knows his stuff. Many the things he says I could confirm. My uncle used to be the top engineer at sealed power.

 

[Snox801]

I like Lake, and I consume a lot of his content, but I think he is trolling a little bit here wearing his Tribologist hat/shirt and talking out of both sides of his mouth and he knows it.

You have to do some Paul Harvey here on this GM situation and now for the rest of the story. When asking GM if this recall and switch to 0w-40 applies to the 2025 vehicles with the 6.2L their response is NO, they pinpointed the defective parts that were supplied by 3rd party vendors and have replaced them with quality parts. The 2025's do not need to run 0w-40, they are back to running 0w-20. Lake knows this is a manufacturing problem that GM is trying it's best to keep the lawyers from eating their lunch. It isn't going to work. 0w-40 isn't going to address this and GM knows it, and Lake knows it. So get some popcorn and pull up a seat. It is going to get fun.

Keep diving into Lake's content and you will see everyone knows the driving reason for lower and lower viscosity oil is EPA and meeting the CAFE rules. To make that happen and still be effective at lubricating and wear it means advanced additive packages and tons of testing. The API Spec for API-SP moved the dial significantly in that direction. The latest API-SQ went into effect Mar 31st and it appears to be leveling up even more. They are proving that with the right additives and research they can provide the same level of protection once afforded only by higher viscosity oils. If low viscosity oils won't work then ask yourself why the racing oils being used right now are down in the 0w-16 range and lower? They have figured out how to make it work and it means more horsepower and faster cars on the track. Of course racing oils are not the same thing as the oil that you and I will be running for street vehicles, but the point being low viscosity oils can and are being made to work.

Look at the oil Lake is running in his daughters new Toyota. It is a factory 0w-8. Don't you think if he thought that a higher viscosity oil was the answer he would be using it? Why didn't he change it? He ran the oil analysis and the numbers look good. He had a 0w-16 in there at first until he could get his hands on a 0w-8 for the car. He just did an oil change on his wife's van. What did he put in it? Higher viscosity than the OEM spec? NOPE But he is experimenting and switched from Toyota OEM oil to Valvoline Restore and Protect and it appears to be working well so far, but it is OEM spec.

The real bottom line probably is this. The OEM spec for the oil is the place to be. Not all oils perform the same so it is up to you to do your homework and maybe do some oil sampling yourself to figure out which oils may work best for your own driving needs. The best additive packages are expensive and they each have their own characteristics that are both pros and cons. This is why it is so hard to get a straight up recommendation even from a seasoned Tribologist like Lake! There are too many variables. The chemistry needs to match the application.

Lake knows better than to feed the wildlife... But here he is! Just laugh and go back and review his other content and accumulate more data. That video is bad and he should know better! I hope this helped.

I took his take different. His big thing was it will help the issues and that running thicker oil will not hurt anything.
Those are the two big takeaways from that video.
Seems every few weeks we get this. Some guys asks about thicker oil. Then these dorks come out and say that the engine is designed with tight tolerances that won’t work with thicker oil.
It’s been on this very website. But we all know the 2.0 can run 5w50 with zero issues. It’s been done and in fact ford recommended that oil in the 2.0, 2.3, 3.5, 5.0,and 5.2 engines when they would be used at the track.
Like lake stated. All oils at some point are thicker than 50w when cold.

 

[HenryFord]

I took his take different. His big thing was it will help the issues and that running thicker oil will not hurt anything.
Those are the two big takeaways from that video.
Seems every few weeks we get this. Some guys asks about thicker oil. Then these dorks come out and say that the engine is designed with tight tolerances that won’t work with thicker oil.
It’s been on this very website. But we all know the 2.0 can run 5w50 with zero issues. It’s been done and in fact ford recommended that oil in the 2.0, 2.3, 3.5, 5.0,and 5.2 engines when they would be used at the track.
Like lake stated. All oils at some point are thicker than 50w when cold.

To me that is a different conversation. "Can you vs should you" Then look at Lake's own vehicle oil choices for his own vehicles. I think it tells you a lot. Base that choice on data. Run that oil analysis and decide if going with a more viscus oil is going to actually benefit you. Can you just "gut feeling" it and run a higher viscosity oil? Sure But it isn't a free lunch.

 

[Master Blaster]

So let's just summarize all these viscosity threads to get some clarity.
GM messed up their engine design and bearing finishes, and have to run higher viscosity to try and hide the problem at the expense of engine efficiency. Therefore all engines are messed up in the same way and will need absolutely higher viscosity oil. After all, Lake Speed said so. A few people in super-hot Arizona are trying 5W30 in their Hybrids and 10W40 in their EcoBoosts because an engine that they used 20 years ago did that, and never mind that my engine does not start on hot oil on a freezing cold morning. Oh and don't forget that this is a very old engine design and it used to run on much thicker oil and that's what I'm going to do. I definitely won't use synthetic oil because only dinosaur sweat is real oil. The engineers at Ford don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and specified an incorrect oil weight in order to meet CAFE specs and I don't give a damn about, and I race every weekend with 50-weight castor oil crap so I'll just use it in my daily driver too. I'm selling it after 2 years of my mistreatment anyways. Oh, and I have an ancient gallon of API SG spec oil that should do the trick in my much higher requirement engine design than my 68 Camaro used.
Did I miss anything? The bull is getting pretty thick around here.

 

[CurtisB]

I like Lake, and I consume a lot of his content, but I think he is trolling a little bit here wearing his Tribologist hat/shirt and talking out of both sides of his mouth and he knows it.

You have to do some Paul Harvey here on this GM situation and now for the rest of the story. When asking GM if this recall and switch to 0w-40 applies to the 2025 vehicles with the 6.2L their response is NO, they pinpointed the defective parts that were supplied by 3rd party vendors and have replaced them with quality parts. The 2025's do not need to run 0w-40, they are back to running 0w-20. Lake knows this is a manufacturing problem that GM is trying it's best to keep the lawyers from eating their lunch. It isn't going to work. 0w-40 isn't going to address this and GM knows it, and Lake knows it. So get some popcorn and pull up a seat. It is going to get fun.

Keep diving into Lake's content and you will see everyone knows the driving reason for lower and lower viscosity oil is EPA and meeting the CAFE rules. To make that happen and still be effective at lubricating and wear it means advanced additive packages and tons of testing. The API Spec for API-SP moved the dial significantly in that direction. The latest API-SQ went into effect Mar 31st and it appears to be leveling up even more. They are proving that with the right additives and research they can provide the same level of protection once afforded only by higher viscosity oils. If low viscosity oils won't work then ask yourself why the racing oils being used right now are down in the 0w-16 range and lower? They have figured out how to make it work and it means more horsepower and faster cars on the track. Of course racing oils are not the same thing as the oil that you and I will be running for street vehicles, but the point being low viscosity oils can and are being made to work.

Look at the oil Lake is running in his daughters new Toyota. It is a factory 0w-8. Don't you think if he thought that a higher viscosity oil was the answer he would be using it? Why didn't he change it? He ran the oil analysis and the numbers look good. He had a 0w-16 in there at first until he could get his hands on a 0w-8 for the car. He just did an oil change on his wife's van. What did he put in it? Higher viscosity than the OEM spec? NOPE But he is experimenting and switched from Toyota OEM oil to Valvoline Restore and Protect and it appears to be working well so far, but it is OEM spec.

The real bottom line probably is this. The OEM spec for the oil is the place to be. Not all oils perform the same so it is up to you to do your homework and maybe do some oil sampling yourself to figure out which oils may work best for your own driving needs. The best additive packages are expensive and they each have their own characteristics that are both pros and cons. This is why it is so hard to get a straight up recommendation even from a seasoned Tribologist like Lake! There are too many variables. The chemistry needs to match the application.

Lake knows better than to feed the wildlife... But here he is! Just laugh and go back and review his other content and accumulate more data. That video is bad and he should know better! I hope this helped.

Thank you for such a detailed response. This oil viscosity question keeps coming up. You pretty much answered the question. Case closed.

 

[Snox801]

To me that is a different conversation. "Can you vs should you" Then look at Lake's own vehicle oil choices for his own vehicles. I think it tells you a lot. Base that choice on data. Run that oil analysis and decide if going with a more viscus oil is going to actually benefit you. Can you just "gut feeling" it and run a higher viscosity oil? Sure But it isn't a free lunch.

Nothing was a gut feeling. He states in many videos. That light weight oils don’t cause any harm but also states neither do heavier oils. But heavier oils will have benefits of protection. Thin oil allows better mpg for sure while also protecting the engine. But many time you get better protection with the thicker oil. Ford has done this many times. If thin oils is all you need why would ford recommend 5w50 for vehicles with the same engines that take 5w30? One is used for normal driving and better mpg. The others are for extreme protection. Exact same 2.3 in the explore calls for 5w30 daily oil while the focus rs calls for 5w50. Both have the exact same 2.3.
And yes I do regular oil analysis and can say I have far less wear metals with heavier oil.
I believe other here have also seen this.

 

[HenryFord]

Thank you for such a detailed response. This oil viscosity question keeps coming up. You pretty much answered the question. Case closed.

Lake will tell you that if you are doing extreme duty cycles on your oil to get it tested. If the wear metals come back too high then the answer may be a different oil for a better additive package, or it may mean moving up to a higher viscosity oil and test it again to see if that addresses the wear metals from the last test. For most people that likely won't be required. For $40 bucks anyone who is really concerned about it can find out what is going on by collecting a sample and sending it off for testing instead of guessing.

 

[Snox801]

I should also point out that racing oil is not going in that direction. Ford has lots of racing programs going. In fact you can go to fords school if you buy a ford performance school.

You know what oil they run? 5w50. What do they run in the gtd, and gt. Oh that’s right 5w50.

Thin oils saves fuel and can work with additives. But all things equal the thicker oil with same additives works better. I have seen this with the exact same engine doing the exact same driving while testing 5w30 vs 5w50.

 

[HenryFord]

Nothing was a gut feeling. He states in many videos. That light weight oils don’t cause any harm but also states neither do heavier oils. But heavier oils will have benefits of protection. Thin oil allows better mpg for sure while also protecting the engine. But many time you get better protection with the thicker oil. Ford has done this many times. If thin oils is all you need why would ford recommend 5w50 for vehicles with the same engines that take 5w30? One is used for normal driving and better mpg. The others are for extreme protection. Exact same 2.3 in the explore calls for 5w30 daily oil while the focus rs calls for 5w50. Both have the exact same 2.3.
And yes I do regular oil analysis and can say I have far less wear metals with heavier oil.
I believe other here have also seen this.

I don't think anyone here is saying people can't run a higher viscosity oil. The question is should you? And what is the cost. If you are pulling the samples and happy with the results then fantastic. I am glad you are happy with the results.

What Lake is saying in this video is not the same as what you are saying. He is implying here that the real answer is a higher viscosity oil and that GM is admitting it. That isn't what is happening which is why I am saying this is feeding the wildlife and trolling. GM already clarified their position with the 2025. Can you run a higher viscosity oil? Yes Is it really buying you anything. Let the science and the data tell the tale.

For even more poof I am citing Lake's own vehicles and his oil choices he has video on his channel for. That is a sermon I can see, not just one preached.

I will follow the science and the data. That target is to get those wear metals below 5ppm, lower being better. Nothing wrong with doing some double flush oil changes, running some miles, and sending stuff off to the lab. Then based on your own use case choose the oil that best fits your needs.

And your reference to the racing oils I would suggest you call up Lake and call him a liar. I am quoting his reference to the oils they were working on at Joe Gibbs... Take it up with him. He stated 0w-16... And in another video it was implied they are lower than that now. Go demand a retraction.

 

[Snox801]

I don't think anyone here is saying people can't run a higher viscosity oil. The question is should you? And what is the cost. If you are pulling the samples and happy with the results then fantastic. I am glad you are happy with the results.

What Lake is saying in this video is not the same as what you are saying. He is implying here that the real answer is a higher viscosity oil and that GM is admitting it. That isn't what is happening which is why I am saying this is feeding the wildlife and trolling. GM already clarified their position with the 2025. Can you run a higher viscosity oil? Yes Is it really buying you anything. Let the science and the data tell the tale.

For even more poof I am citing Lake's own vehicles and his oil choices he has video on his channel for. That is a sermon I can see, not just one preached.

I will follow the science and the data. That target is to get those wear metals below 5ppm, lower being better. Nothing wrong with doing some double flush oil changes, running some miles, and sending stuff off to the lab. Then based on your own use case choose the oil that best fits your needs.

And your reference to the racing oils I would suggest you call up Lake and call him a liar. I am quoting his reference to the oils they were working on at Joe Gibbs... Take it up with him. He stated 0w-16... And in another video it was implied they are lower than that now. Go demand a retraction.

I don’t think anyone is saying anything different. He states multiple things in this video. Number one, it was a gm issue and the fix has been heavier oil.
He goes on to explain why it’s effective.
He also states heavier oils will not hurt your engine just fuel economy.
Nothing more nothing less. Can low weights work yes. But application is key. Pure race engine in gonna case sure they get rebuilt after every race. So they can accept higher wear levels.
but every manufacturer does indeed recommend thicker oils for severe use. Which he also recommends.

You seem to think that something else is being implied. Op just asked if people used different and results.
I posted mine. I’ve run 5w30 amsoil and 5w50 amsoil. The 5w50 definitely held up better According to the “data” you claim to follow. Somehow you seemed to miss that part of my post.
I do get my oil reports. Just as lake suggests.
So not sure what else you are trying to get at.

 

[HenryFord]

I don’t think anyone is saying anything different. He states multiple things in this video. Number one, it was a gm issue and the fix has been heavier oil.
He goes on to explain why it’s effective.
He also states heavier oils will not hurt your engine just fuel economy.
Nothing more nothing less. Can low weights work yes. But application is key. Pure race engine in gonna case sure they get rebuilt after every race. So they can accept higher wear levels.
but every manufacturer does indeed recommend thicker oils for severe use. Which he also recommends.

You seem to think that something else is being implied. Op just asked if people used different and results.
I posted mine. I’ve run 5w30 amsoil and 5w50 amsoil. The 5w50 definitely held up better According to the “data” you claim to follow. Somehow you seemed to miss that part of my post.
I do get my oil reports. Just as lake suggests.
So not sure what else you are trying to get at.

Actually Lake says they don't rebuild those NASCAR engines each race anymore. He says they run them 4-5 races now between rebuilds. It is a whole new paradigm in racing.

GM is about to be challenged on their "fix". They are about to eat the cost of up to 700k new engines(some think it is more than that going back to 2019). I don't think anyone is going to lay down for "just put a 0w-40 oil in it" and call that a fix. That is why I said get some popcorn and pull up a seat. Things are about to get really interesting. They admitted defective, substandard parts were the cause of the recall and how they prove that is to pull the codes and if your vehicle doesn't show this code change the oil and call it good. We will see if that stands up in court. How many engines that weren't throwing the code ended up puking anyway? That is when the snowball will pick up speed.

I really like Lake and think his content provides some great insight, data, and clears up a lot of myths about lubrication, oils, fuels etc. In this case I think this video is trolling. He knows there are a lot of people who are very uncomfortable with these thinner and thinner oils and rightfully so. Until you look under the covers at the additive world and packages that make those oils possible. Then it gets really interesting.

Lake knows this and has been covering some of the amazing work that is going on and has been spending lots of time over at HPL and showing how these packages and API spec oils are put together. It is fascinating stuff. It looks to me like Lake was intending to stir the pot a little with this video which is why I am calling foul ball.

 

[Gpp]

I love these oil discussions!no winners,no losers and as a 74 year old i love it!
Speaking of the oil i started out in the late 60,s changing my oil ,here it comes,i still use 10 w30 weight oil.never had a oil related problem.change it every 3000 miles,new filter and pre lube it!to each his own i say.but i do like this forumn also!

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