Maverick Hybrid Build: HRG 1.5" lift, 17" RRW Wheels, Toyo Open Country AT3, Steeda strut tower brace, PPF & more

[NoVaJimmy]

But center bore diameter has nothing to do with runout.
I think you may have a flawed understanding of what runout is and perhaps ought to google a description of that term before randomly tossing it into a discussion.

Runout, in this usage, is how flat, in layman's terms, the hub face is while turning. It can be affected by multiple issues such as a poorly machined hub face, a worn wheel bearing or a damaged spindle to name just a few of the more common causes.

Center bore is literally the center bore of the wheel and by the laws of nature MUST be larger than the diameter of the hub center or you will never get the wheel on.
Center bore definitely need not be that tight, heck, it doesn't even have to be close as you can use plastic rings, or just the conical face of the lugnuts tightening into the conical seats in the wheel to align the wheel closely enough to the hub center.


If spec on center bore demanded only a 0.05mm tolerance you would likely need to heat the wheels up and cool off the hub just to gain enough clearance to install them, and any dust or dirt would probably be enough to bind it up or cause galling.

Center bore doesn't matter? Are you going to tell me that wheels are centered by lugnuts next? Laughable that you think .1mm is "close enough". No, it's not. It's not acceptable when the purpose of having wheels hubcentric is so the hub actually supports the weight of the vehicle and not the lugs. Also, don't lecture me on runout, it's the exact definition of runout when you have two circular mating surfaces which are designed to rotate on the same axis. Non hubcentric wheels will give you unacceptable lateral runout on your wheel and a wheel vibration. It would be similar to the hub/bearing assembly itself having out of spec lateral runout. Like I said, if manufacturers claim that acceptable runout for a hub assembly is .05mm and you install a wheel that has a .1mm larger diameter hub bore your assembly is out of spec per the manufacturer. I can assure you that .1mm is a big deal when it comes to hub bore on wheels.

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[Blinky]

Center bore doesn't matter? Are you going to tell me that wheels are centered by lugnuts next? Laughable that you think .1mm is "close enough". No, it's not. It's not acceptable when the purpose of having wheels hubcentric is so the hub actually supports the weight of the vehicle and not the lugs. Also, don't lecture me on runout, it's the exact definition of runout when you have two circular mating surfaces which are designed to rotate on the same axis. Non hubcentric wheels will give you unacceptable lateral runout on your wheel and a wheel vibration. It would be similar to the hub/bearing assembly itself having out of spec lateral runout. Like I said, if manufacturers claim that acceptable runout for a hub assembly is .05mm and you install a wheel that has a .1mm larger diameter hub bore your assembly is out of spec per the manufacturer. I can assure you that .1mm is a big deal when it comes to hub bore on wheels.

What's laughable is that you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Google only found about two million results when discussing lugcentric fitment of wheels so obviously it's something that I've made up on the fly to support my argument....

I'd say it's pretty clear that's not the case but here are a couple links to help educate you:
https://www.discounttire.com/learn/hub-centric-vs-lug-centric
http://www.nissantechnicianinfo.mobi/htmlversions/winter_2012/Hub-Lug_Centric.html
https://m.roadkillcustoms.com/hub-centric-vs-lug-centric-wheels/

Hubcentric fitment IS better but the vast majority of aftermarket wheels and many older OEM wheels (Toyota trucks for example) are lugcentric and when installed properly are completely fine.

What supports the weight of the vehicle is the friction between the mounting face of the hub and wheel which is provided by the torque of the lugnuts pressing the wheel against the hub.
If the hub was supporting the weight of the car against the wheel the hub or wheel would wear, and wear rapidly, especially with the addition of dust, dirt and road grime.
The wheel would need to be a press fit on the hub to ensure that there was no play because ANY amount of movement would quickly deform the hub or wheel.

Regarding the hub lateral runout, I edited my post because I had a inkling that you were going to get your feelings all twisted up and I just didn't feel like getting into it but here we are and you're still beating a dead horse that you clearly don't understand and obviously didn't even read my post.
You're referencing hub face lateral runout but applying those much more critical values to radial runout which is why I said that hub runout has nothing to do with center bore, because it doesn't.

Radial runout is a vastly looser tolerance with numbers of 0.05" (1.28mm) being pretty common for hubs and even larger values such as 0.080" (2mm) are referenced for transport trucks or heavy duty pickup applications.
Regarding the 0.1mm that originally brought this up, that value is so small as to be insignificant when you consider the total runout for a mounted wheel and tire is usually considered to be fine when it's anywhere from 1/16" to 1/8" out. Since you're stuck on 0.1mm let's refresh the conversions: 1/16" is ~1.5mm and 1/8" is ~3.2mm, in context with those values which are considered acceptable 0.1mm tolerance on center bore is not an issue and is literally lost in rounding errors when calculating such things.

And because I'm sure you're going to assume I also made these values up I'll toss in this link from a company manufacturing wheel balancing equipment:
"The maximum suggested radial runout for a rotating tire/wheel assembly is 0.125 inches for both front and rear tire positions."
https://www.innovativebalancing.com/Balance&RunOut.pdf

 

[NoVaJimmy]

What's laughable is that you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Google only found about two million results when discussing lugcentric fitment of wheels so obviously it's something that I've made up on the fly to support my argument....

I'd say it's pretty clear that's not the case but here are a couple links to help educate you:
https://www.discounttire.com/learn/hub-centric-vs-lug-centric
http://www.nissantechnicianinfo.mobi/htmlversions/winter_2012/Hub-Lug_Centric.html
https://m.roadkillcustoms.com/hub-centric-vs-lug-centric-wheels/

Hubcentric fitment IS better but the vast majority of aftermarket wheels and many older OEM wheels (Toyota trucks for example) are lugcentric and when installed properly are completely fine.

What supports the weight of the vehicle is the friction between the mounting face of the hub and wheel which is provided by the torque of the lugnuts pressing the wheel against the hub.
If the hub was supporting the weight of the car against the wheel the hub or wheel would wear, and wear rapidly, especially with the addition of dust, dirt and road grime.
The wheel would need to be a press fit on the hub to ensure that there was no play because ANY amount of movement would quickly deform the hub or wheel.

Regarding the hub lateral runout, I edited my post because I had a inkling that you were going to get your feelings all twisted up and I just didn't feel like getting into it but here we are and you're still beating a dead horse that you clearly don't understand and obviously didn't even read my post.
You're referencing hub face lateral runout but applying those much more critical values to radial runout which is why I said that hub runout has nothing to do with center bore, because it doesn't.

Radial runout is a vastly looser tolerance with numbers of 0.05" (1.28mm) being pretty common for hubs and even larger values such as 0.080" (2mm) are referenced for transport trucks or heavy duty pickup applications.
Regarding the 0.1mm that originally brought this up, that value is so small as to be insignificant when you consider the total runout for a mounted wheel and tire is usually considered to be fine when it's anywhere from 1/16" to 1/8" out. Since you're stuck on 0.1mm let's refresh the conversions: 1/16" is ~1.5mm and 1/8" is ~3.2mm, in context with those values which are considered acceptable 0.1mm tolerance on center bore is not an issue and is literally lost in rounding errors when calculating such things.

And because I'm sure you're going to assume I also made these values up I'll toss in this link from a company manufacturing wheel balancing equipment:
"The maximum suggested radial runout for a rotating tire/wheel assembly is 0.125 inches for both front and rear tire positions."
https://www.innovativebalancing.com/Balance&RunOut.pdf

Luggcentric wheels haven't been the standard for a long time. Ford does not use lugcentric wheels. Yes, friction also plays a part in supporting the vehicle but the hubcentric mating surface maintains proper radial alignment. Anyone who has used cheap plastic hubcentric rings on aftermarket wheels has most likely experienced a bad vibration. I didn't even read everything you wrote because I stopped after reading after realizing you plagiarized the first random google result you found. The fact of the matter is that using non-hubcentric wheels will result in wheel vibrations. Your "theory" that a hubcentric opening that exactly matches the hub diameter would result in wheels that "won't fit" is pretty silly. So you're going to tell me that if I have a 1" bit on a lathe and drill into a cylinder with that 1" bit, the hole created won't measure exactly 1" while the bit also measures exactly 1"? Ridiculous. You can claim all you want that a 63.5mm hub bore meant for a 63.4mm hub won't matter but I'm glad you're not designing anything for Ford. Also, calling out radial runout for a tire assembly based on wheel balancing principles is grasping. I can assure you that any wheel/tire assembly with a .125" runout is going to be unpleasnt to drive on. Why don't you reference allowable runout for a hub assembly based on manufacturer's specs?

I get that you're probably the type of person who loves pissing matches on the internet but my original point was to reach out to the manufacturer to clarify hub bore, that it may be a typo. Based on OP's experience with no vibration or issues I'm going to assume it's a typo and not actually sized at 63.5mm. Flame on though....

 

[azmotoxxx]

Dude, give it up! You’re wasting everyone’s time with your BS in this thread. You started this random conversation cuz you thought you were adding value, I appreciate that, but clearly you were wrong according to the manufacturer. It wasn’t a typo. Your ego is not your amigo. The manufacturer said it is good, period, done, we are good. No need to continue battle on this thread over nut hairs with others, it does not matter. The wheels are awesome and work well.

 

[NoVaJimmy]

Dude, give it up! You’re wasting everyone’s time with your BS in this thread. You started this random conversation cuz you thought you were adding value, I appreciate that, but clearly you were wrong according to the manufacturer. It wasn’t a typo. Your ego is not your amigo. The manufacturer said it is good, period, done, we are good. No need to continue battle on this thread over nut hairs with others, it does not matter. The wheels are awesome and work well.

The point of my post is that it's important for wheels to be hubcentric and I'm trying to relay that to others considering someone else is trying to say that wheels are lugcentric. I'm glad you like your wheels. Anyone who's done work in a machine shop knows that even .1mm isn't insignificant which is why I recommended getting clarification from the manufacturer. These forums are for exchanging information and discussing things and I'm sorry you feel otherwise. If you don't like what I post there's this thing called the ignore function. I suggest you familiarize yourself with it if me posting information annoys you so much.

 

[azmotoxxx]

The point of my post is that it's important for wheels to be hubcentric and I'm trying to relay that to others considering someone else is trying to say that wheels are lugcentric. I'm glad you like your wheels. Anyone who's done work in a machine shop knows that even .1mm isn't insignificant which is why I recommended getting clarification from the manufacturer. These forums are for exchanging information and discussing things and I'm sorry you feel otherwise. If you don't like what I post there's this thing called the ignore function. I suggest you familiarize yourself with it if me posting information annoys you so much.

I do appreciate you brought it up. Clearly we went down a rabbit trail is all. It says hub centric on RRW website. I see your point trying to educate others though, so I can appreciate that. Take care Merry Christmas.

 

[Icanhazmaverick]

- HRG 1.5” lift
- RRW 17x8 wheels (RR5-V)
- 245/65/17 Toyo Open Country AT3
- McGard lug nuts
- Steeda strut tower brace
- F150 LEDs all over
- Ceramic tint
- PPF the entire front, front fenders, hood, A pillars, edge of roof, etc
- Ceramic coated the paint
- Tailgate strut install
- LCD protector
- Center console organizer

Updated stuff:
- BuildRight Industries Mini antenna
- Hood struts
- Custom stereo system
- Rock Fosgate - 6 speakers & amp
- JL Audio 10” subwoofer
- sound deadening material in all four doors, under and behind rear seat
- Auto-dimming home link rear view mirror
- AkroHD trash can
- AkroHD cup holder coasters
- AkroHD phone holder in cubby

Next up:
- painted Ford logos front, side and rear

Would like to get white Lariet door handles. Would like airbags and a tonneau cover down the road possibly.

- HRG 1.5” lift
- RRW 17x8 wheels (RR5-V)
- 245/65/17 Toyo Open Country AT3
- McGard lug nuts
- Steeda strut tower brace
- F150 LEDs all over
- Ceramic tint
- PPF the entire front, front fenders, hood, A pillars, edge of roof, etc
- Ceramic coated the paint
- Tailgate strut install
- LCD protector
- Center console organizer

Updated stuff:
- BuildRight Industries Mini antenna
- Hood struts
- Custom stereo system
- Rock Fosgate - 6 speakers & amp
- JL Audio 10” subwoofer
- sound deadening material in all four doors, under and behind rear seat
- Auto-dimming home link rear view mirror
- AkroHD trash can
- AkroHD cup holder coasters
- AkroHD phone holder in cubby

Next up:
- painted Ford logos front, side and rear

Would like to get white Lariet door handles. Would like airbags and a tonneau cover down the road possibly.

Would you mind linking the lug nuts you picked up? Appreciate you.

 

[azmotoxxx]

Would you mind linking the lug nuts you picked up? Appreciate you.

McGard 65515BK Black Spline Drive 5 Lug Wheel Installation Kit (M14 x 1.5), 16 Lug Nuts / 4 Locks / 1 Key / 1 Install Tool

 

[Icanhazmaverick]

McGard 65515BK Black Spline Drive 5 Lug Wheel Installation Kit (M14 x 1.5), 16 Lug Nuts / 4 Locks / 1 Key / 1 Install Tool

Thanks! God damn those are $200

 

[azmotoxxx]

Thanks! God damn those are $200

no way, i don’t recall spending that much. Jeez

 

[azmotoxxx]

no way, i don’t recall spending that much. Jeez

mine were $100, you are getting ripped off at $200.

They are really nice!

 

[Icanhazmaverick]

mine were $100, you are getting ripped off at $200.

They are really nice!

Where did you buy them? Amazon has them for $125 Used, $200 new
https://a.co/d/fxK0Jlx

Advanced Auto has them for $300

 

[azmotoxxx]

Where did you buy them? Amazon has them for $125 Used, $200 new
https://a.co/d/fxK0Jlx

Advanced Auto has them for $300

sorry dude - guess I got bent over on them too, my bad. Man they are nice though . The gorilla ones look like crap compared to these and they didn’t fit right.

 

[Icanhazmaverick]

sorry dude - guess I got bent over on them too, my bad. Man they are nice though . The gorilla ones look like crap compared to these and they didn’t fit right.

Thanks, you’ve been very helpful, I appreciate your time. I have a set of RR5-S in black waiting to go on, if I could trouble you one more time – which gorilla Lugnuts did you order so I don’t make the same mistake?

 

[azmotoxxx]

Thanks, you’ve been very helpful, I appreciate your time. I have a set of RR5-S in black waiting to go on, if I could trouble you one more time – which gorilla Lugnuts did you order so I don’t make the same mistake?

I got these but was clueless at the time and the ones they sent were too thick. They didn’t have the correct pictures. I think I couldn’t use acorns or something like that. I forget. My bad.

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