ICE is the future - for Hybrids

[Chops]

Upgrade your 800 Mile Club membership to a 1200 Mile Club membership.

Ultra Efficient ICE to improve Hybrid Tech mpg’s…

edit…this is a “deep dive” analysis. I watched it all & summarize that ultra efficient ICE will enable Hybrid Tech to challenge the “Future is EV” mindset…

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[Mavster Mechanic]

Upgrade your 800 Mile Club membership to a 1200 Mile Club membership.

Ultra Efficient ICE to improve Hybrid Tech mpg’s…

edit…this is a “deep dive” analysis. I watched it all & summarize that ultra efficient ICE will enable Hybrid Tech to challenge the “Future is EV” mindset…

​

Part I
This concept is like.... 75 years old.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Part II

So what are the odds of it happening?

 

[Chops]

Part II

So what are the odds of it happening?

Happened already in China. The Geely M9 uses the incredible ICE in this Hybrid:

 

[Chops]

Part II

So what are the odds of it happening?

Already in production and confirmed by Guinness…


“The Geely i-HEV hybrid powertrain holds the Guinness World Record for thermal efficiency in a mass-produced internal combustion engine, reaching an astonishing 48.41%. It also achieved a record-low fuel consumption rate of 2.22 liters per 100 km (about 106 MPG) in real-world testing.[1, 2]”

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Already in production and confirmed by Guinness…


“The Geely i-HEV hybrid powertrain holds the Guinness World Record for thermal efficiency in a mass-produced internal combustion engine, reaching an astonishing 48.41%. It also achieved a record-low fuel consumption rate of 2.22 liters per 100 km (about 106 MPG) in real-world testing.[1, 2]”

Honda Insight.

Was getting up to 100 MPG on a good day 25 years ago. (80 MPG average, 75 MPG worst case)

The 5-speed manual got higher MPG than the belt type CVT.

Whole car was assembled by hand in Japan. Almost no steel in the car. Mostly aluminum. (Will never rust) and some parts were magnesium (34% lighter than Aluminum).

Whole car weighed 1850 pounds.
Engine was 996cc. 0.996 liter.

Would go 85 MPH.
Took 30 seconds to get to 85 MPH but that's beyond the point here.

It would take you anywhere you wanted to go at the same speed as everyone else. Plus about 30 seconds. Had air bags and met all Federal regulations of year 2000

1000 miles from an 11 gallon tank.

It was the most aerodynamic production car ever made at the time. Not sure if anything beat it up until now.

We are behind schedule with automotive technology and innovation.

 

[Cherokee]

Way back in 1976 that years Honda Civic/CVCC got 54 mpg on the highway and
44 in city traffic with the A/C on.
It had a carburetor,
A five speed stick,
A/C
And hauled ass if you knew how to , ‘stir’ the gear box.

We have not really moved forward. Just sideways.
Got real good at bullshitting the American consumer.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

MPG by Setup
Standard 3-Cylinder (1.0L Manual): ~37 mpg city / 44 mpg highway.
Base/LSi 4-Cylinder (1.3L): ~33–35 mpg city / 39–41 mpg highway.
XFi Fuel Saver Model: Up to 53 mpg city / 58 mpg highway (earlier EPA ratings).

Now drive something that's safe and actually usable, besides hauling your arse to and from work.

The Ford Maverick Hybrid delivers an EPA-estimated 42 MPG city, 35 MPG highway, and 38 MPG combined for front-wheel drive (FWD) models. All-wheel drive (AWD) hybrid variants perform similarly at roughly 40 MPG city and 34 MPG highway.

 

[Khrome83]

I wonder if range extended will replace hybrid. In theory is simplistic in design. Drive train is all electric all the time, engine is just a generator for the battery.

 

[icegradner]

Way back in 1976 that years Honda Civic/CVCC got 54 mpg on the highway and
44 in city traffic with the A/C on.
It had a carburetor,
A five speed stick,
A/C
And hauled ass if you knew how to , ‘stir’ the gear box.

We have not really moved forward. Just sideways.
Got real good at bullshitting the American consumer.

Might have something to do with the fact that we keep making vehicles bigger, heavier, and have to cram in more HP in every new vehicle generation, all because people supposedly demand it. If cars were the same size and weight as those from the 1980’s, with today’s engine tech and reasonable HP levels (sub 200 HP), a lot of vehicles would be hitting those numbers.

 

[Khrome83]

Might have something to do with the fact that we keep making vehicles bigger, heavier, and have to cram in more HP in every new vehicle generation, all because people supposedly demand it. If cars were the same size and weight as those from the 1980’s, with today’s engine tech and reasonable HP levels (sub 200 HP), a lot of vehicles would be hitting those numbers.

Really good point. I hope we see a tick towards smaller vehicles. I know they can increase the load and towing of the Maverick,
It’s not a limit of the form factor. It’s the inside cabin space. And the maverick really impresses me and I don’t feel cramped. Even though it is much smaller than my Subaru Ascent. I would still prefer to Ascent for comfort on a road trip, more room for snacks and things to entertain kids in the cabin, but I could easily make it work with my Maverick also. I really think it’s like range anxiety, there is the perception of what you need and then what you axtuallly need.

 

[zen_]

Way back in 1976 that years Honda Civic/CVCC got 54 mpg on the highway and
44 in city traffic with the A/C on.
It had a carburetor,
A five speed stick,
A/C
And hauled ass if you knew how to , ‘stir’ the gear box.

We have not really moved forward. Just sideways.
Got real good at bullshitting the American consumer.

My oldest sister had one of these legends that she drove until it had nearly 300K, then someone else drove it for years after that. Got upper 40s in the Colorado front range.

These vehicles were super light though with extremely poor crash protection compared to a modern vehicle (crumple zones, frame, safety equipment), and the engines were in the peak years where they figured out the first round of emissions controls with fuel injection, then emissions got even stricter.

We often take it for granted how much better the air quality in our cities is from emissions controls, but I guess the safety stuff is more of a debate. If you could put the hybrid system Toyota or Ford uses in this vehicle with a little 3 cylinder atkinson that produced around 70-80 HP, it would get around just fine and probably get 70-80 MPG. You'd also be dead in an instant if a Tahoe hit you in a small overlap crash.

 

[dlivry7]

Might have something to do with the fact that we keep making vehicles bigger, heavier, and have to cram in more HP in every new vehicle generation, all because people supposedly demand it. If cars were the same size and weight as those from the 1980’s, with today’s engine tech and reasonable HP levels (sub 200 HP), a lot of vehicles would be hitting those numbers.

also exhaust restrictions. we were “killing everyone” with 70’s exhaust. the restrictions there, have caused a large drop in mpg also

 

[Chops]

The denial that ICE technology advancements will be the key to the future of Hybrids is strong in this thread

If the upgraded 2028 Maverick Hybrid keeps the current Atkinson - it will not survive another generation.

Fact.

edit…Toyota is current ditching the 2.5l Atkinson for even more efficient 1.5L & 2.0L turbocharged Atkinson ICE for their Hybrids. Starting this year…

 

[JazznSF]

Way back in 1976 that years Honda Civic/CVCC got 54 mpg on the highway and
44 in city traffic with the A/C on.
It had a carburetor,
A five speed stick,
A/C
And hauled ass if you knew how to , ‘stir’ the gear box.

We have not really moved forward. Just sideways.
Got real good at bullshitting the American consumer.

The last new car I purchased prior to my Maverick was in 1989; a Seattle Silver Honda Accord LXi... one of three left on the lot after all the "new" 1990 models showed up. I bought it because it was the only trim available with fuel injection in the '89 MY Accord.

It was a five-speed manual. That car never got less than 37 mpg, ever, and often got 43 mpg when driving purely on the highway. It had plenty of zip, and all the creature comforts Honda offered back then. It handled like a go cart, carving corners like an F1 car.

Three years into my ownership a mechanic friend and I solved my only gripe: it had weak brakes. We retrofitted the four-wheel disc brakes from a wrecked 1990 Honda Prelude... problem solved.

I owned that car for 20 years and 277K miles. Never had to do anything other than regular maintenance in two decades. (The original clutch worked just fine on the day I sold it.)

That Accord was the best car I've ever owned, other than (perhaps) my 1964 Buick Wildcat, which I bought used for $400.00 in 1973. But that's another story...

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