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Hybrid MPG Estimate Delay - New Chips maybe?

clavicus

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Just thinking out loud -- I don't know nothin.

Is it possible that Ford is delaying their official MPG estimate because they had to change some silicon and need to QA/QC some new hardware and programming? Or are they one of the few models that is being audited by the EPA? But if so, aren't those tests done relatively quickly? Shouldn't they be done by now?

If a hybrid is being built this week, is it going to sit in the desert until those numbers are official?
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bombast

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I'd guess that hybrid vehicles simply require more/different testing to be done than pure ICE vehicles, hence why the 2.0L got finished and the 2.5L Hybrid has not.
 

2022EOW

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Just thinking out loud -- I don't know nothin.

Is it possible that Ford is delaying their official MPG estimate because they had to change some silicon and need to QA/QC some new hardware and programming? Or are they one of the few models that is being audited by the EPA? But if so, aren't those tests done relatively quickly? Shouldn't they be done by now?

If a hybrid is being built this week, is it going to sit in the desert until those numbers are official?
Wow, lots of speculation. Why?
 
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clavicus

clavicus

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Wow, lots of speculation. Why?
My post is a question my dude. If someone has experience in car manufacturing or related tech they can say nah, that's not likely. Or hmm, possibly, here's my experience with XYZ. Or we can post memes. Whatever floats your boat.

Ford Maverick Hybrid MPG Estimate Delay - New Chips maybe? 1631652714647
 

FirstFord

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Just thinking out loud -- I don't know nothin.

Is it possible that Ford is delaying their official MPG estimate because they had to change some silicon and need to QA/QC some new hardware and programming? Or are they one of the few models that is being audited by the EPA? But if so, aren't those tests done relatively quickly? Shouldn't they be done by now?

If a hybrid is being built this week, is it going to sit in the desert until those numbers are official?
I wouldn't think that Silicon changes would be necessary to tweak the mileage. I think firmware offers a lot of room to work with.

One of the biggest determinations of fuel efficiency, once the hardware has been set, is how regenerative braking is programmed. That can have a big impact on real world mileage but naturally will depend a lot on how a particular vehicle is driven. The only thing that matters for the window sticker is what mileage is returned on the EPA protocol. But that's a big advantage of driving modes; they can optimize the default mode for the test and then deliver different programs that can offer better economy or performance in other scenarios.

For myself, I'd like extreme regenerative braking. Almost one-foot driving. I drove a Tesla model 3 and found that I'd have to reprogram my driving to manage the aggressive regen, but I'm prepared to do that. On the other hand, I've driven Camry and Prius hybrids and found the "engine braking" to be much like my manual car once downshifted.

None of this will do anything for highway driving though.
 

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Big_T

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Just thinking out loud -- I don't know nothin.

Is it possible that Ford is delaying their official MPG estimate because they had to change some silicon and need to QA/QC some new hardware and programming? Or are they one of the few models that is being audited by the EPA? But if so, aren't those tests done relatively quickly? Shouldn't they be done by now?

If a hybrid is being built this week, is it going to sit in the desert until those numbers are official?
At this point in the program, at this late date, I highly doubt it. My uneducated guess/gut feeling.
 
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clavicus

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I wouldn't think that Silicon changes would be necessary to tweak the mileage. I think firmware offers a lot of room to work with.

One of the biggest determinations of fuel efficiency, once the hardware has been set, is how regenerative braking is programmed. That can have a big impact on real world mileage but naturally will depend a lot on how a particular vehicle is driven. The only thing that matters for the window sticker is what mileage is returned on the EPA protocol. But that's a big advantage of driving modes; they can optimize the default mode for the test and then deliver different programs that can offer better economy or performance in other scenarios.

For myself, I'd like extreme regenerative braking. Almost one-foot driving. I drove a Tesla model 3 and found that I'd have to reprogram my driving to manage the aggressive regen, but I'm prepared to do that. On the other hand, I've driven Camry and Prius hybrids and found the "engine braking" to be much like my manual car once downshifted.

None of this will do anything for highway driving though.
I'm looking forward to the game-ification of the hybrid MPG, seeing how good I can get my regular 5 minute commute to the office day-in and day-out.
 
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clavicus

clavicus

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I wouldn't think that Silicon changes would be necessary to tweak the mileage. I think firmware offers a lot of room to work with.
Ah I was wondering if there could be an issue less related to tweaking the mileage, but more for actually testing programming with new chips (if that's even happening at all) and making sure there aren't any glitches.
 

pxpaulx

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I'm looking forward to the game-ification of the hybrid MPG, seeing how good I can get my regular 5 minute commute to the office day-in and day-out.
That is certainly a driving scenario where the Hybrid should shine! Total opposite if you were going with an Ecoboost.
 
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I'm looking forward to the game-ification of the hybrid MPG, seeing how good I can get my regular 5 minute commute to the office day-in and day-out.
It's a great way to learn what works, and what doesn't. Things like fire plugs and telephone poles become markers for throttle changes, and you get to know every little hill.

Just be aware of cold weather limitations. The HVB works poorly below 0F, and won't charge below 32F, so don't be surprised if it acts differently on start-up in deep cold. 5 minute drives may not be enough to warm the car, although you will get heat. Cold sucks; I lose ~10 mpg.
 
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clavicus

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It's a great way to learn what works, and what doesn't. Things like fire plugs and telephone poles become markers for throttle changes, and you get to know every little hill.

Just be aware of cold weather limitations. The HVB works poorly below 0F, and won't charge below 32F, so don't be surprised if it acts differently on start-up in deep cold. 5 minute drives may not be enough to warm the car, although you will get heat. Cold sucks; I lose ~10 mpg.
I'll be using the scheduled start feature in the winter to warm up the truck for 5-10 minutes before I get in, as far as I understand heat = ICE engine running, no electric heating element, so hopefully by the time I get in the system will be on its way to warmed up.

I wonder if the computer calculates the gas used at idle and incorporates it into average mpg?

And does the HVB have a heater element or heat transfer block from ICE for cold conditions to warm up the liquid coolant? It does have liquid cooling right? I imagine the heat transfer from the cabin to the battery under the passenger/rear seat isn't going to amount to much.
 
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Darnon

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I wonder if the computer calculates the gas used at idle and incorporates it into average mpg?

And does the HVB have a heater element or heat transfer block from ICE for cold conditions to warm up the liquid coolant? It does have liquid cooling right? I imagine the heat transfer from the cabin to the battery under the passenger/rear seat isn't going to amount to much.
In my experience the regular dash MPG figure might not take into account remote start fuel usage, but the trip display will.

The hybrid also has an exhaust to coolant heat exchanger after the catalytic converter to help scavenge additional thermal energy for warming up more efficiently.
 

bwiese

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"New chips" don't really effect hybrid mileage.

New internal embedded software ("Firmware") for engine control and for motor control can indeed affect mileage favorably.
 
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clavicus

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"New chips" don't really effect hybrid mileage.

New internal embedded software ("Firmware") for engine control and for motor control can indeed affect mileage favorably.
I gotcha, I just wonder if they have to reprogram some software (IF they are even using alternate chips), so that would potentially take time to debug and QA/QC. Didn't Tesla have to do this?

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/26/22595060/tesla-chip-shortage-software-rewriting-ev-processor
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