Hybrid 12 Volt Battery Crazy Findings

[HeyBales]

It's crazy, I have never had these issues and I have owned my 25 hybrid Maverick for over a year. Even sitting at an airport for a week, I still got in and it fire right up.

To note, I have it auto start every week day, but not on weekends when I drive it less or not at all.

Even the wimpy OEM SLA batteries on pre-25MY's would make it a year or more - with infrequent drives - in cold climates.
Battery saver functions kicked in usually during that time.

So don't be too impressed your AGM has made it the same amount of time - it really should by nature of the battery type.

And it's not being undercharged as much.

The 12.1 V limit to engage battery saver appears to be the AGM beneficial limit - didn't help the SLA's that were undercharged even more, and took up resting even lower than that.

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[HeyBales]

Thanks for the extensive note on your issues. I had my 12volt battery die, mid winter, without warning. So I replaced it with an AGM battery from Ford.

My comment is nerdy, and may not be pertinent to the solution. But my understanding is that the Maverick Hybrid does not include an alternator. That the 12v battery charging comes from the "big battery" by way of a DC to DC convertor. Not a traditional alternator.

Here is a link that perhaps says it better:
https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/hybrid-alternator.11178/#:~:text=In place of an alternator,,power the standard 12v electronics.

I have long-standing interest in dead batteries, and the pain and misery that ensues. I was under the impression that this hybrid (like a Toyota hybrid) would not have this issue. But, it does not completely insulate us from non-starting vehicles.

Good luck with all that. If you learn anything more, please pass it along.

I am not diving into Forscan or whatever. The truck/car should just work, without me dickering with it.

That's exactly why the system seems to be designed like a smart battery charger, because they can control very precisely what they want it to do.

Sadly one that doesn't recognize the charge time could be as little as 10 min, as well as possibly the hours a normal charger would want.
Also a charger that by design doesn't go for a full charge.

 

[rslilly76]

Thanks for the extensive note on your issues. I had my 12volt battery die, mid winter, without warning. So I replaced it with an AGM battery from Ford.

My comment is nerdy, and may not be pertinent to the solution. But my understanding is that the Maverick Hybrid does not include an alternator. That the 12v battery charging comes from the "big battery" by way of a DC to DC convertor. Not a traditional alternator.

Here is a link that perhaps says it better:
https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/hybrid-alternator.11178/#:~:text=In place of an alternator,,power the standard 12v electronics.

I have long-standing interest in dead batteries, and the pain and misery that ensues. I was under the impression that this hybrid (like a Toyota hybrid) would not have this issue. But, it does not completely insulate us from non-starting vehicles.

Good luck with all that. If you learn anything more, please pass it along.

I am not diving into Forscan or whatever. The truck/car should just work, without me dickering with it.

first i stated the dc/dc converter and how it works

second you don't have to mess with forscan but the battery only charges to 85% sla and 92% agm

unless you turn lights on, turn parking lights on, run fan on speed higher than 5, or plug in a trailer

 

[HeyBales]

@rslilly76 & @Mavster Mechanic

Just struck me with both your systems.
Pre-25MY had no battery stat's entered or used - or at least manual didn't make it sound like they were. (but EB's did)
25/26MY manual makes it sound like there are battery stat's entered.

Now maybe the BMS system on the pre-25MY is just so good (did I just say that?!), that it really nailed the battery specs. It at least figured out a change to AGM.

Or the 25MY despite the stats, just has a wide safety zone.

And the 2 seem to match.

But the fact both systems have that upper limit to normally stop charging, tells me the battery stats have nothing to do with that limit - just battery type.
Is that lower limit the same between your systems - mid/upper 80's?

The 12.1 V limit for battery saver to kick in - seems much safer with the AGM not getting down there for average driving. But it's too high a limit for where the SLA's end up pretty quickly.


Considering even a production run of early EB's got SLA's due to lack of AGM's - I'm betting there was a decision to not use AGM's as planned in pre-25 hybrid due to lack of product or purely cost savings - hence the battery stat PID's being available but unused.
What a mess they don't want to deal with.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

I am starting to wonder if I should stop wondering. As long as the truck starts every time.

When my 2022 was 6 months old, I noticed my 12v FLA hovering about 12.1 or 12.2.

Sure it was about to strand me, I took it to a dealer. It passed their tests. They would not replace it.

When about ready to leave they asked "does it start for you every time?" And I had to admit, yes it did.

So their final comment was "What do you have to complain about?"

In self reflection: nothing.
If not for an add-on ScanGauge I would have been blissfully unaware of the sub-typical voltage. First no-start came three years later.

 

[Darryl]

What does warranty period have to do with this? Software does not wear out based in time or miles.

I have nothing to do with Ford warranty policy. I simply suggest things that I feel will help a person get their vehicle working properly. There are a lot of things that I wish for would do differently as far as their warranty and other things as well as how they pay us as technicians for warranty work. But at the end of the day, my opinions are simply just that. As for their software "wearing out" you are correct. But sometimes software has a bug that only occurs under specific conditions that not everyone will experience. Other times I have absolutely no idea why a particular update may only be needed a few years down the road. I simply know that in many cases the updates work. And I try to share that knowledge. Warranty policy is above my job description

 

[HeyBales]

I am starting to wonder if I should stop wondering. As long as the truck starts every time.

When my 2022 was 6 months old, I noticed my 12v FLA hovering about 12.1 or 12.2.

Sure it was about to strand me, I took it to a dealer. It passed their tests. They would not replace it.

When about ready to leave they asked "does it start for you every time?" And I had to admit, yes it did.

So their final comment was "What do you have to complain about?"

In self reflection: nothing.
If not for an add-on ScanGauge I would have been blissfully unaware of the sub-typical voltage. First no-start came three years later.

Some of us don't drive 5 days a week with 2 x 1 hr charging opportunities though.

And we'd like our cabin lights to stay on a tad longer, or some time, matching what prior vehicles could do, when we get in, or open door to get out.

And we'd like a battery to last longer than 9-18 months despite daily driving that would cause any other vehicle battery to last 3-5 yrs.

Some are worse off with a remote access feature that doesn't work usually.

True as discovered now - SLA had it worse than AGM will allow now - but many with AGM still reach that point sooner or later.

You will be able to keep that AGM going for expected life - may not even have any warranty left on it when that time comes!

 

[rslilly76]

Some of use don't drive 5 days a week with 2 x 1 hr charging opportunities though.

And we'd like our cabin lights to stay on a tad longer, or some time, matching what prior vehicles could do, when we get in, or open door to get out.

And we'd like a battery to last longer than 9-18 months despite daily driving that would cause any other vehicle battery to last 3-5 yrs.

Some are worse off with a remote access feature that doesn't work usually.

True as discovered now - SLA had it worse than AGM will allow now - but many with AGM still reach that point sooner or later.

You will be able to keep that AGM going for expected life - may not even have any warranty left on it when that time comes!

Very nicely stated! Agree 100%

 

[rslilly76]

I can confirm on the 25 that plugging something into the trailer light's will cause the AGM battery to charge above 92%. Today I plugged in a taillight that goes into the trailer hitch receiver, and it does in fact trigger the charging just like Mavster said it would!

 

[tiktokbrainrot]

Does the XL have heated power mirrors? Sliding back glass window? If not, these would be 2 examples.

They are both speced out with the same battery. Unless you are actively using those features, there is no difference in usage. Same charging hardware, same ECU, ece ece ece.

In the days of K wiring the less speced out cards would have had significantly less wiring, but that hasnt been true for 20+ years now.

It's a bit like saying "your laptop has 2 USB ports and mine has 7, so I need a way bigger battery and they operate totally differently".

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