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How far we haven't come...

Azmig88

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This is my point.
We don't need to.
But we should be moving that direction, not away from it would't you agree?

400 horsepower 4000 pound EV's are ridiculous. The textbook image of greed and gluttony.
I DO agree, but I don’t feel I (nor you) should make their choice.
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JimParker256

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A human is 1/3 of a horsepower.

How many times your own body power is reasonable to get to work every day?

Right now you bought something that is 750x what the baseline is.

A little ridiculous.
Oh, I feel SO much "holier than thou"... I'm driving a Hybrid Maverick – which is "only" 573x that baseline you reference! So much better! :ROFLMAO:

(PS - Though I do ride my bike a lot!)
 
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GPSMan

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Oh, I feel SO much "holier than thou"... I'm driving a Hybrid Maverick – which is "only" 573x that baseline you reference! So much better! :ROFLMAO:

(PS - Though I do ride my bike a lot!)
Best we can do without building our own, right? 😄

Not many 80 MPG trucks on the market.
 
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GPSMan

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I had this little gem 2007 to 2013.
Ford Maverick How far we haven't come... EC1E0026-FC62-4413-95C6-1BD82D45B0DD


A model year 2000 Honda Insight.
3 cylinder 1 liter engine with 144 volt hybrid booster battery. Made back when Hybrids had real promise for efficiency gains.

Will go 100 mph if it suits your fancy on the highway. 70 MPG at 70 MPH.

80 MPG at 60 MPH.
90 MPG at 50 MPH.
100 MPG at 40 MPH.

Could drive 1000+ miles on one tank of gas.

If ever a car should have been called "Area 51" this was it. But Honda called it "Citrus".
 

MinntoMich

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I don't know but the premise of this thread makes sense to me. The single best feature of the Maverick is/was the base XL price and powertrain. I'd opt for something similar if it was LESS expensive... to a point. I have looked at a Mirage (aptly named as you think its a car from far away) and was impressed by the lack of features and overall primitiveness of the car. I'm not kidding. Simple transportation and open the hood and you'll find nothing hidden. Starter, alternator, radiator all easily serviceable by the owner. Why didn't I opt for one then? At $18,000 you get so much more by just going up a few thousand dollars. You get a lot more. Plus I need the box.

I can think of many cars that I bested the EPA rating on but I drive like old folk, always have. Cars are heavier than they need to be and maybe some of that is safety. Cars are less efficient than they should be and I would fault excessive emissions and customer perceptions (or advertising executives talent) that power is better than economy. They are more lucrative for the automaker too. AMC and Studebaker aren't still in the car business despite the success of the Rambler and Lark.

I know I'm in the minority but if fuel conservation is a national goal then the speed limit should have remained at 55.
 

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CTYankee

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The point is the power plants of gasoline vehicles haven't changed significantly, only the creature comforts have.
From my point of view, ICE vehicles are enormously more efficient than they were decades ago. Today, we have 4-cylinder engines delivering more power than some 80's and 90's muscle cars at better fuel mileage than their econobox contemporaries and doing it while moving modern vehicles of considerably more weight. It took significant changes in engine technology to accomplish that.

https://sites.lafayette.edu/egrs352-sp14-cars/performance-and-fuel-economy-trends/

The point is we are consuming more fuel per passenger mile than we could be doing today.
Passenger density per aircraft is up, leading to the wonderful experience of air travel as we know it today. Fuel expense is 10-12% of airline operating expense, which has pushed the airlines to demand more efficient engines. The aircraft engine manufacturers have responded within the limits of technology, reliability, and safety.

https://theicct.org/publication/fuel-efficiency-trends-for-new-commercial-jet-aircraft-1960-to-2014/

Could we be doing better? Maybe, but not without understanding the tradeoffs and how that impacts other operating expenses. If the manufacturers could produce more fuel-efficient engines, they would. Sending even 1% of your operating costs back to the bottom line would be a compelling argument for accelerating fleet upgrades. But, other than increasing engine fuel-efficiency faster, there isn't much the airlines can do, IMHO.

I'm not in the airline or auto manufacturing industries, though, so I'd be interested in seeing the data underlying the statements above.
 
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GPSMan

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Lighter cars are only at a disadvantage if collided with much larger, heavier ones.

If everyone drove smaller & lighter we'd all be equally safe. The number of cars running into mountains I think you'd agree is relatively small.
 
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GPSMan

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@CTYankee while true, you'll admit we've added more POWER to cars and trucks over the years.

I would like to see lower power and higher MPG added to cars and trucks which would be positive for humankind and the planet.
 

CTYankee

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If everyone drove smaller & lighter we'd all be equally safe. The number of cars running into mountains I think you'd agree is relatively small.
Unfortunately, that leaves out tractor-trailers, busses, box trucks, cargo vans, etc. All of which are needed to move goods and provide services in our economy. I'm pretty sure cars crash into those aforementioned vehicles on a regular basis and come out the worse for wear.

If I was worried about that, though, I'd still be driving my F-350 even though I no longer tow anything more than a utility trailer. But that Insight/Prius class won't cut it for me and I value AWD over fuel economy, so there's a couple of EcoBoosts in my garage (one Maverick and one Fusion).

But I agree with you that we need to keep pushing the tech forward on behalf of the planet.
 

rlhdweman

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Let’s cut through all the specifics, and ask O.P. a simple question:
IF it was possible to have a choice between getting a brand new 70’s Ford or a 2023 Maverick as a gift, which would you prefer to use on a daily basis? It’s a simple question. Please don’t complicate it with things like collector value, etc…..

PS: As I remember, the Yugo got great M.P.G., didn’t it?
I am not the OP, but I drove a 78 f150 with a 4.9 six for a number of years for a business vehicle, if it was driven respectfully I once achieved 19mpg with it, I'll pass & take the Maverick, light years ahead in all areas.
 
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Bj517

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Tech and creature comforts aside, the MPG has not improved much at all.
Maverick hybrid does substantially better than 23 city/33 highway. It's also bigger, heavier, roomier, more powerful, and can haul more
 

Jonny44

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Yep, I had one. Isuzu P'up. It would hit 30 mpg if you were sitting at about 50 mph but it would drop dramatically as you increased speed. Rated to tow 1000 pounds. 0-60 could almost be measured in minutes. Remember the truck that Arnold hijacked in T2? That was the same model. Top speed in the 60's mph. Room for a driver and a passenger, but nothing else. 6 ft narrow bed that would fit the rest of the crew. It made for some cold passengers in the winter! Yeah, we haven't come too far from that.
 
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GPSMan

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Yep.
We got bigger and heavier and kept the MPG flat. Some consider that progress. In a way, on paper, it is.
Helping to stretch our limited supply of oil? No.
 

Sleeper 7

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Unless you're towing, don't need 250hp.
You would be surprised how many things I need 250hp for and towing is not one of them. Road rage, racing kids in imports the drag strip
 

crgator

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I know I'm in the minority but if fuel conservation is a national goal then the speed limit should have remained at 55.
I'm really surprised that the "Green" movement hasn't pushed for the lower speed limit. I know every vehicle I've owned got better mileage at 55 than at 70 (duh), so just think what that would do. Of course, then they'd have to enforce it.
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