Factory Tracking Devices in Mavericks

[dochawk]

Welcome to the 21st Century World of Technology. I am sure most people on the forum with Mavericks would rather have the following:
1. AM radio only, 2. No power windows, door locks, seats, etc.,

Pansies.

So they're going to keep automatic chokes, synchronized transmission (let alone those two-pedal sissymatic transmissions!), and that insidious automatic spark advance?

barbarians.

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[jonshep]

I've done quite a lot of work on this in my security research role and have issued the following guidance for our fleet of corporate owned Ford vehicles.

• Ford engages in invasive tracking of customer vehicles via the on-board telematics and via the "FordPass" mobile applications.
• Ford's Terms of Service and Privacy policy are end-user hostile and unacceptable..
• Do not accept the Terms of Service or Privacy Policy presented by Ford Motor Company.
• Do not install any Ford sourced mobile applications on company owned devices. We strongly discourage the use of Ford mobile applications on personal devices.

My testing showed that disabling the "convenience" features in the car menu DID NOT stop the cellular radio from being active. I believe that Ford still tracks the vehicle but does not make the data visible to the end user or the dealerships.

On a Maverick, you can pull fuse 11 from the fuse panel under the glovebox. This powers off the 'telematics control module' and stops the tracking. Additionally, if you have the dash apart you can unplug the TCM completely, It is a free standing module with no co-dependencies. Somewhere in Ford land, there is a group of engineers that understand the pure evil of this these tracking / monetization policies and intentionally made it easy to disable the TCM. Kudos to them for doing the right thing.

Undoing that will cause. you to not be able to start your car with your phone, see your tire pressures and a handful of other useless 'features' that Ford offers as compensation for monetizing your life. You dealer won't receive your mileage to bug you about the oil changes that you've already done.

A few other notes.

• If you're interested in what some of the dealer sees from the TCU, you can go to motorcraftservice.com and purchase a 72 hour subscription to the tech info (super useful if you need wiring diagrams, etc). From there you can view non-sensitive telematic data. No location or anything. FoMoCo keeps the juicy stuff for themselves and the 'marketing partners.'
• Many of you will come back with the argument of "I have nothing to hide,' or 'you're carrying a phone that tracks you anyway.' Both of these responses make you sound foolish. Here's where we're headed, largely based on every auto maker's own forward looking statements to investors:
  • First, how about behavior tracking / curation based on location. Are you ready to have a pop up on your car screen that says "Hello Mr. Smith. We've noticed that you visit the liquor store regularly and have notified your health insurer.?" How about "Mr Smith, you seem to be at the adult theater, we've notified your wife's council?"
  • Then, driving habits. Ford's current software has a soon to be enabled feature that can send your driving behavior straight to your insurance company. Brake late...miss a stop sign, go to fast when passing? That now costs money.
  • As for your mobile computer that happens to occasionally make / receive calls, you are probably correct. It's probably doing quite a lot of tracking. All of this tracking, apart from cell tower triangulation, is completely avoidable by the owner of the device. Or put another way, entered into voluntarily and consented to by you. It doesn't have to be this way.

Sorry for the long post, but I hate to see everyone just give in to invasive tracking. It's going to end badly, and is preventable.

In reality it's as bad as you suspect. You can request that your data remain private, but fo sells the data to data companies. They inturn run their own algorithms on the data and sell it to insurance companies. That would be where you drive, your speed, lane changes, et. al. It is already happening. Some data copanies validate vehicle data with your cell phone data. I don't know if they can also read or gain access to your black box information.

 

[CB900F]

On youtube, one of me favorite posters is fram an attorney. It's called Lehto's Law. He has a video titled Car Companies Are Tracking You and Selling Your Data.

He goes into the legalities, the scope of the tracking and how unacceptable it is. He says that the legislators need to get involved.

He also has a vid on people using "jammers" to stop GPS tracking.

 

[MayhemMaverick]

I can verify that pulling the fuse on a 2022 Maverick disables the cell modem and stops telematics.
This is based on 1) the dealer sees no updates in the system; 2) there are no updates at 'ford.com'; 3)There are no updates in the 'motorcraftservice.com' portal for my car.

Next time I'm in the dash, I'll remove the TCU. It's not at a very convenient place and the fuse it's powered off via the fuse so not a priority.

I wish. Since my last post, about 9,000 miles ago when I pulled the fuse, I went into Carfax and looked up my Maverick. There it was with an up to date mileage as of yesterday to the exact mile. So . . . .. . . something is ticking still. We would all appreciate any more solid information on this.

 

[asylus]

Welcome to the 21st Century World of Technology. I am sure most people on the forum with Mavericks would rather have the following:
1. AM radio only, 2. No power windows, door locks, seats, etc., 3. No power steering, 4. No backup camera, 5. No air conditioning, 5. No back seats and back doors, 6. No bedliners or tonneau covers, 7. No LED headlights, 8. No turbo, much less Hybrid engine, 9. No bluetooth, Apple Car Play, Android Car Play, 10. Lest I forget - no turn signal stalks and the list goes on and on. Go back to the 50-60's and for the most part, there you are.

Also, I have worked for companies who REQUIRED gps devices in their company vehicles so they could keep track of them. Based on the above, I guess they could not have anybody working for them with a company vehicle. No one hates big brother more than me, but, let's face it, we are at that point and the satellites above us know more about us than we know about ourselves. Sorry, I will take the technology.

I think you mostly just described the Slate truck there.

 

[oysterville]

I wish. Since my last post, about 9,000 miles ago when I pulled the fuse, I went into Carfax and looked up my Maverick. There it was with an up to date mileage as of yesterday to the exact mile. So . . . .. . . something is ticking still. We would all appreciate any more solid information on this.

So you use the Ford Pass app, or do you have the truck set up on your home Wi-Fi?

 

[blueboy]

Great post. Mainly Ford, like Honda, Mazda and others sell the data from your vehicle to insurance companies that monitor the way you drive, like speeding and aggressive manners. I just got the Mav new, and off the bat I refused to sign for the Ford app. The Mav is paid in full, my property. Ford, Don't Tread On Me!

 

[whitef]

I wish. Since my last post, about 9,000 miles ago when I pulled the fuse, I went into Carfax and looked up my Maverick. There it was with an up to date mileage as of yesterday to the exact mile. So . . . .. . . something is ticking still. We would all appreciate any more solid information on this.

Carfax?

Carfax doesn't get telematics data from Ford. They to take submissions from a variety of sources including dealer and third party services and attach those entries to your VIN along with the mileage. They then calculate a timeline and estimate the mileage for a particular date based on history. I think what you're seeing is a lucky guess on Carfax's part and not the result of vehicle telematics reporting.

FWIW, mine is still frozen in time from when I pulled the fuse some time ago. I have recalls due, so will verify that the dealer isn't seeing anything whenever I get it in for those.

 

[whitef]

I think you mostly just described the Slate truck there.

I put in a reservation for the Slate truck. If nothing else its interesting and basically beer money, so why not?

Also, I still think the Maverick is too big. This should be a better sized vehicle.

Crank windows and no radio? Hell yeah...sign me up!

 

[MayhemMaverick]

Carfax?

Carfax doesn't get telematics data from Ford. They to take submissions from a variety of sources including dealer and third party services and attach those entries to your VIN along with the mileage. They then calculate a timeline and estimate the mileage for a particular date based on history. I think what you're seeing is a lucky guess on Carfax's part and not the result of vehicle telematics reporting.

FWIW, mine is still frozen in time from when I pulled the fuse some time ago. I have recalls due, so will verify that the dealer isn't seeing anything whenever I get it in for those.

Thanks White, I hope you are correct. I will check the mileage again. If it is an exact match ? FWIW if the dealer, which is FORD, collects data, as you state, how is that not FORD collecting the data ? I know it's a bigger or smaller rabbit hole, but who, how is my mileage recorded to the exact mile if not by the FORD telemetrics ? - thanks !!

 

[whitef]

Thanks White, I hope you are correct. I will check the mileage again. If it is an exact match ? FWIW if the dealer, which is FORD, collects data, as you state, how is that not FORD collecting the data ? I know it's a bigger or smaller rabbit hole, but who, how is my mileage recorded to the exact mile if not by the FORD telemetrics ? - thanks !!

Let's continue to compare notes. I'll schedule those recalls soon and visit with the dealer to see what they see.

For what it's worth...I just pulled up my Maverick on CarFax, and the mileage estimate is not even close. i drive a lot and spread that mileage across several cars, so the CarFax estimates are always way off on my cars. I might drive the Maverick (or any of the cars) 6k one month, then park it for a few weeks.

However; if you a a driver who drives a pretty stable distance each month, and who gets service at a faculty that reports to CarFax so they get updates, CarFax's mileage estimates are scary accurate.

 

[HeyBales]

I wish. Since my last post, about 9,000 miles ago when I pulled the fuse, I went into Carfax and looked up my Maverick. There it was with an up to date mileage as of yesterday to the exact mile. So . . . .. . . something is ticking still. We would all appreciate any more solid information on this.

Did you have it at dealer?

Ford dealers service info - which of course includes date and mileage - is uploaded into Carfax.

The Fordpass app data which is current mileage in Ford's system - is most assuredly not, as I've corrected mine several times in Carfax to stop notices coming too soon. And Fordpass works fine.

Besides the Carfax own estimation method. Usually not that accurate though.

Besides - you think Carfax is going to spend money for your free service to buy your specific info from Ford?

Buying the non-user specific combined data is 1 tier level of charge, and it's not super specific besides miles per trip, speeds and distances, vehicle types/models, that sort of thing.
Buying user specific data is a whole other level of charge.

Talking to IT guy at State Farm - they don't buy it. I wanted to see about their cheaper rates for tracking how I drive, just curious since Truck shows that option. Because State Farm does have their own OBD dongle that does bluetooth to phone, which sends the data up with combination of info. If you have too many missing data days - no discount no matter how good a driver you are or low mileage.
He said if they were to buy it from Ford at their expensive charge - does nothing for all the other vehicle models their customers have. So it is a whole lot cheaper to use the infrastructure they already have in place for their own system.
Now - I'd warrant that system is actually a 3rd party not theirs specifically - and I'd imagine that 3rd party could sell their combined data to other parties too, unless State Farm has an exclusive arrangement.

 

[MayhemMaverick]

So . . . . . . . to clarify, the vehicle has not been to a dealer during the interval in question. However, I was wrong in my words on the mileage and the vehicle being tracked or having emitted data collected on it. The mileage shown on Carfax is not identical to the mileage on the vehicle odometer. It's off over 1,000 miles. So, as stated above, an estimate was formulated by Carfax and by Ford apparently also. We received an oil change due notice with yet another safety recall notice via US mail. I get confused as our Hyundai hybrid has nearly identical mileage to the Maverick .. . . .

 

[HenryFord]

So . . . . . . . to clarify, the vehicle has not been to a dealer during the interval in question. However, I was wrong in my words on the mileage and the vehicle being tracked or having emitted data collected on it. The mileage shown on Carfax is not identical to the mileage on the vehicle odometer. It's off over 1,000 miles. So, as stated above, an estimate was formulated by Carfax and by Ford apparently also. We received an oil change due notice with yet another safety recall notice via US mail. I get confused as our Hyundai hybrid has nearly identical mileage to the Maverick .. . . .

I had something similar happen to me with a Chevy Bolt EV. I pulled the Onstar fuse on the car once I found out that Onstar had been caught red handed selling peoples data even after they had opted out of the services, AND I found in the fuse box an additional tracker that was installed by the dealer. I called the dealer and raised a stink about it and removed that while I was at it. The dealers excuse was they use it to offer other services... WHATEVER, I didn't agree to it so out it went. I kept getting the maintenance reminders from GM telling me how many miles I had on the car and that I needed to come in "to get my OIL CHANGED!". OMG It turned out to be an estimated miles once I cut off their data feed and at some point it stopped or I unsubscribed from the emails, I don't know which. I should have went into the dealer and asked them to do that oil change, inspect the air filter, and spark plugs while they were at it... I think I heard it misfire! LOL

One thing to be aware of is the onboard infotainment system is basically a computer and it doesn't care how it gets a connection to the mothership. So if you pair up Wifi at home or your phone it is possible for the vehicle to phone home. Also I wouldn't have the Fordpass or any vehicle apps on the phone. If you need it for some reason you can install it, do what you need and remove it, but I would avoid those apps. They are a data mining nightmare.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

I had something similar happen to me with a Chevy Bolt EV. I pulled the Onstar fuse on the car once I found out that Onstar had been caught red handed selling peoples data even after they had opted out of the services, AND I found in the fuse box an additional tracker that was installed by the dealer. I called the dealer and raised a stink about it and removed that while I was at it. The dealers excuse was they use it to offer other services... WHATEVER, I didn't agree to it so out it went. I kept getting the maintenance reminders from GM telling me how many miles I had on the car and that I needed to come in "to get my OIL CHANGED!". OMG It turned out to be an estimated miles once I cut off their data feed and at some point it stopped or I unsubscribed from the emails, I don't know which. I should have went into the dealer and asked them to do that oil change, inspect the air filter, and spark plugs while they were at it... I think I heard it misfire! LOL

One thing to be aware of is the onboard infotainment system is basically a computer and it doesn't care how it gets a connection to the mothership. So if you pair up Wifi at home or your phone it is possible for the vehicle to phone home. Also I wouldn't have the Fordpass or any vehicle apps on the phone. If you need it for some reason you can install it, do what you need and remove it, but I would avoid those apps. They are a data mining nightmare.

I remember 20 years ago, when OnStar got caught eavesdropping and turning that information over to the feds.

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