Constructive Feedback for Ford [Input Wanted]

[DryHeat]

Explain to me as you would a child how nationally operated service repair centers are able to operate for years now while being brand agnostic.

You are not a child, so you must be aware that you are beating a straw man. The question is not "How do non-brand-specific repair centers exist?" The question is, "Why might we want to have the option of going to a brand-specific repair center?"

My suggestion was that manufacturer-aligned service centers would be useful for specialty work that my chosen mechanic can't or won't do, and for warranty and recall work. I don't want to go to a "nationally operated" franchise repair center. I like to use a local small-shop mechanic and have the option to go to a specialist if I need one.

This is not about keeping the dealer system. It's about how former dealerships could play a useful role if transformed into delivery and repair centers. You would buy your car from the manufacturer. The manufacturer would pay the delivery/repair center to prep and deliver it, as well as to do warranty and recall work.

You (and I mean you) wouldn't have to go to such a center if you didn't want to. You could go anywhere you like. That being the case, I'm not sure why it's so important to you to argue that such centers shouldn't be available for others who might want to use them. Do you by any chance represent a "union" of big-box, franchise, non-dealer repair centers? (That's an inside joke. I hope you get it.)

BTW, if you doubt that we might ever need specialized repair centers, here's an expert's opinion:

While there are some things that are very proprietary and may require specialists, that's already true today.

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[JASmith]

"Why might we want to have the option of going to a brand-specific repair center?"

Independent non-dealer brand specific repair shops already exist as well. I'm fairly confident that you understand that the argument here is against the brand specific dealership model, or in fact dealerships in general when it comes to new-vehicle sales.

In case the point still somehow eluded you, I'll reiterate the meat of the argument: Ordering directly from the manufacturer could potentially save you 40% of the purchase price, and manufacturer dealerships are NOT required to service vehicles, as we already have independent non-dealership solutions in place.

You (and I mean you) wouldn't have to go to such a center if you didn't want to.

Wrong. Until the dealership business model is dismantled, I will NOT have the choice to have my vehicle serviced under warranty at an independent shop of my choosing and, most importantly which again is the entire premise of the post here, I will NOT have the ability to purchase a vehicle directly from the manufacturer at a tremendously discounted rate bypassing dealerships because of anti-competitive legal blockades that dealerships have lobbied to put in place. This HAS to be dismantled first.

BTW, if you doubt that we might ever need specialized repair centers, here's an expert's opinion:

Now you're just trolling, as I specifically stated, and which you apparently do not refute, is that dealerships sometimes don't have the required specialists in house already. They have to consult experts remotely at Ford for troubleshooting advice or have someone brought in, which if they can bring them in to Finnegan Dodge they can bring them in to an independent repair shop as well. Take auto-tint manufacturers, some require that independent shops that sell their products pass a certification, and the same can be done for independent repair shops, so, again, the existing dealership network is not required for used car sales or vehicle service and repairs.

 

[skadizzle]

Brand-specific dealers aren't needed anymore. We have multiple non-brand specific nation wide chains for buying and selling used vehicles and others for servicing vehicles.

Its just a really bad business model anyway to require brand specific service centers, because it means in smaller towns you may have to drive an hour or two away if they don't have sufficient population to have ten shops being Honda, Toyota, Chevy, Dodge, Hyundai, Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Mitsubishi dealership all in one cluster, but they could have three universal brand-agnostic service centers. Its also liberating for consumers, because while lets say you do have a Ford dealership only 15 mins drive away, what if they suck? The next one may be more than an hour away, whereas if the shops were all brand-agnostic it's much more likely to be closer.

Heck, if someone smashes into your car doing $10K in damage, your insurance has no problem paying an independent shop to do extensive repairs and parts replacements, so no reason Ford can't do the same as USAA.

And even if there are dealerships after all this shortage ends, I'd much rather brand-specific dealership business model dies as its just impractical and inefficient. How much nicer would it be to just be able to go to Carmax and test out a Nissan, Ford, and Chevy that you like back to back, and then buy it there or place an order instead of driving all over town dealing with three different dealership salesman that will run credit checks on you and keep texting your phone.

I agree with you, but with so many models and trims, it would be hard to see them allwithout going to a brand dealer. Plus, some people feel like getting their vehicles serviced by the dealer means it will be done correctly. I'm not one of them, I only go to the dealer if I have a coupon. Otherwise I take it to a local shop where its cheaper. I'd love for the dealership to just be a place to window shop and then order it online.

 

[JASmith]

I agree with you, but with so many models and trims, it would be hard to see them all without going to a brand dealer.

Its hard if not impossible to see them all going to a brand dealer right now, especially since Ford seems pretty serious about their order-only business model where you *may* get lucky going to a dealer and getting a cancelled order that you can look at before someone has bought it as otherwise they won't have stock.

Besides, chances are if you're in the market for say a crossover, you're not really going to care about Rangers, F150s, Explorers and so forth, but rather an Escape, Rogue, HRV, Tucson, Sportage, Rav4, etc. and you'll end up on quite a quest. And do you really want the vehicle you end up buying having been run through automated car washes and had its tires kicked by randos that raced the engine while it was still cold on their test-drive to "see how it pulls" when the engine isn't even fully broken in yet? Better to have demo vehicles for that.

So what you could have are independent brand agnostic used car dealers renting out space to the manufacturers for some of their demo-vehicles. So you could drive to Carmax or TexasDirect or whatever, check-in, and just as you would test a used vehicle from their inventory you could choose the new demo vehicles they have available from various manufacturers, and then you can place your order online. Those retail stores won't mind because the manufacturer is paying them to essentially "rent out" their demo vehicles for a small fee as an extra revenue stream, and it brings more traffic in for people that don't want to wait to buy a used car. Its also the information age, so we're able to take virtual test drives (sometimes even using your VR headset) and far more advanced online build configurators (the one from Mercedes is great) so you can compare back-to-back virtually as well, along with all of the professional reviewers that get to spend a week or more with the vehicles to give us a more detailed feedback as experts than we're likely to notice on a 5-10 min test drive.

And when you're ready to buy, if you're saving even say only 25% off the purchase price by buying direct instead of a dealer, on such a large purchase that can be a huge savings!

 

[DryHeat]

I'm fairly confident that you understand that the argument here is against the brand specific dealership model, or in fact dealerships in general when it comes to new-vehicle sales.

That is indeed what you want to argue about. But you'll have to argue with someone else. Because I was talking about what services former dealerships could provide in a post-dealership, "buy direct from the manufacturer" world. Not about preserving the dealership model.

That's why I wrote: "So I still see a need for manufacturer-specific service centers, particularly for warranty and recall work." Not dealerships. Service centers.

To be fair, that could have been clearer. I can see how you could have missed the "service center" language, particularly if you were hell-bent on arguing about dealerships.

But how did you miss the even more direct language in the post you are replying to right now?

My suggestion was that manufacturer-aligned service centers would be useful for specialty work that my chosen mechanic can't or won't do, and for warranty and recall work.
* * *
This is not about keeping the dealer system. It's about how former dealerships could play a useful role if transformed into delivery and repair centers.

Are you seriously saying that you read that as an argument for keeping the dealership model?

 

[RebellaE]

Fly in the ointment (as has already been mentioned upthread) is that is an illegal practice in more than several states.

But it's not - We visited a Polestar (EV car) showroom and took a test drive. The dealer had a few available but not the combo of color and options we wanted. Dealer says to go online. They have real-time listings of cars in production and we reserved one that was exactly what we wanted. Ships to the dealer. Financing can be done on the manufacturers website ahead of time or at the dealer. No haggling, no mark-ups. I can track expected delivery date through the website.

This is in Texas, where dealerships rule. They are just working within the laws to make the sale through the dealership. Its just Volvo (the parent company) has made a different dealership agreement so they don't have to let their dealers screw the customer.

In the end, we will have a Polestar and a Maverick, both purchased at MSRP (which is pretty good considering the market). The Polestar was about 1/25th the stress of the Maverick.

 

[JASmith]

Because I was talking about what services former dealerships could provide in a post-dealership, "buy direct from the manufacturer" world.

I would wager that only a fraction would be needed, likely the largest and most efficient, to be converted into independent used vehicle dealerships of all makes. It would be odd if their sales floor sold all makes but only serviced one make, and they typically have huge parking lots for sitting inventory and office space for showrooms and what not that wouldn't really have a purpose for a pure service center.

To be fair, that could have been clearer. I can see how you could have missed the "service center" language, particularly if you were hell-bent on arguing about dealerships.

Well, you specifically quoted the one line where I said that brand-specific dealerships aren't needed for your reply, implying a rebuttal in context that their service centers are needed.

Speaking of changing laws though, one thing that we can also thank dealers for is that at least in Texas there was public support behind changing tax law so that private vehicle sales can count towards new vehicle purchases for tax purposes. Dealerships used their lobby power to shoot this down though, so that you can only take advantage of that if going through a dealership, discouraging private vehicle sales. In 2022, with financing just a couple of clicks away online and websites to sell your car yourself so easy to use, there's no reason a far larger portion of vehicle sales aren't done privately entirely as well, cutting out that middle-man which benefits the previous and new owner.

 

[DryHeat]

I would wager that only a fraction would be needed, likely the largest and most efficient, to be converted into independent used vehicle dealerships of all makes. It would be odd if their sales floor sold all makes but only serviced one make, and they typically have huge parking lots for sitting inventory and office space for showrooms and what not that wouldn't really have a purpose for a pure service center.

Ok... back on the discussion track about what could happen if the existing dealership model is abolished.

"Never make predictions, especially about the future." (h/t Casel Stengel) We all do it anyway, but who really knows?

You could be right that only a few "former dealerships" would survive as used car dealers and brand-agnostic repair centers. Probably not very many. Why? Near me is a street appropriately named "Auto Mall." There's a CarMax at one end and an AutoNation at the other, with maybe eight new car dealers in between. Most of those dealers would have to choose a different path.

It seems likely to me that many former dealers would try to preserve their status as the brand-specific provider of lucrative warranty work. It's not at all clear how law would handle that. (Changing the law to allow manufacturers to sell direct is one thing. Changing the law to require manufacturers to pay for warranty work wherever the buyer wants is another.)

I'll get back to you with a firm (and correct) prediction after it has already happened. That's when I'm at my best.

 

[LPHaynes]

It appears that Ford wants to transition to more of a "direct order" system. As a consumer, I'm supportive of this if it improves the overall buying experience. Due to circumstances both within and without Ford's control, it seems that the version of direct ordering used for the Maverick has had flaws for some customers.

As a highly engaged community I think we are of great value to Ford as "beta" testers. I want the system to improve to benefit future buyers, and myself if I ever buy direct again. So I think it's mutually beneficial for us to share constructive feedback on what could have been improved and for Ford to take note.

I'll kick off with some of my own suggestions, but would love suggestions from this excellent community. Of course no guarantees that Ford either sees or acts on this, but I believe they're monitoring this forum.

Without further ado:

- While it may be difficult to provide precise details for practical and/or competitive reasons, having a portal for order holders to log into to see their order status would be very useful. It would prevent a lot of inbound inquiries from customers, especially amid confusion over whether orders are "confirmed" vs not.
- Early adopters of an entirely new platform (Maverick) are going to be different to deal with than mass adopters. To generalize, they're probably more willing to forgive production hiccups, but also benefit from regular communication, even if imperfect. While shifting production week emails might be unwanted for mass market, I think early orderers are likely to benefit on balance. At the least an opt-in should be provided (maybe on the aforementioned portal).
- Long-run for direct ordering to be competitive with emergent car manufacturers there needs to be tighter control over MSRP. I'm not sure the legal specifics but I know I can walk into a Polestar dealer and they're obligated to provide me a car at MSRP, so it is definitely possible. As a customer it's not a great feeling to wait 6 months+ for a vehicle and still not be entirely sure if the dealer will honor prices. Especially when I know Ford's sanctions against such dealers is weak / non-existent.
- To the extent dealers are involved, Ford should make a better effort to educate them. Naturally this is a challenging production environment, but when I ordered last year I was told it would be 8-12weeks to receive the vehicle. Thankfully I didn't take that at face value, but it should have been abundantly clear to everyone involved that this wouldn't be realistic. Again this is where a portal could help to ensure that there is some centralized "source of truth".
- I think the flaw of allocations has been recognized by Ford so I'm not going to harp on it, but clearly allocations is a rubbish system for direct orders.

 

[TorqueWrenchUSA]

Hmm thinking about it a little bit. We could easily keep things as they are...for the most part. As dealerships can be used as sort of a secondary quality check and prep station for new online vehicle orders places by customers.

The only changes I can see to buying a new vehicle from Ford or anyone from that matter. Is the ability to place a new special vehicle order online. You can use your driver's license number, email, phone number, username, password, deposit, etc. to be used as sort of an authentication setup to ensure that it is a customer and not the dealer. You can do this as well at the dealership as well for those who are less tech savvy.

Once that order is placed, the price for your vehicle is locked in. Along with any promotions or rates at time of order placement. You will then be assigned through email a ?-digit alphanumeric code that you would then have to take to the dealer for them to be able to do anything with your order. Such as finance options. The dealership will have have to then verify your driver's license number along with the alphanumeric code to ensure that it is you placing the order.

This will allow a bit of security in making sure the dealership cannot change anything on the order. The only thing the dealership can see, (as you chose to have the vehicle sent there for prep/inspect), is to see that someone placed an order, when yo expect the vehicle delivery, and that they were chosen for the prep/inspection.

Since an account will need to be created in order to place the order. You would then be able to monitor the status of the vehicle order, add/delete things from the order with whatever limitations the manufacturer has. If you choose to cancel your order. You would then have to call the manufacturer such as Ford in order to do so. Then once cancelled, you will receive an email with a confirmation number. Kind of like paying bills online.

As for any new/used vehicles sitting on the lot regardless of reason. They become the dealerships vehicles to do as they see fit. Almost like seeing them as a convenient store or as another customer.

Add the additional regulations such as adm's, special stuff like paint protection for $4999, and whatever else outside of the online order on any online customer ordered vehicles is prohibited. As the dealership will be used as a paperwork filler and prep/inspection.

Dealerships still make money, customers get exactly what they ordered without any worries about the price, and the manufacturer is making sales with better customer satisfaction. Nothing but wins.

 

[WasChops]

Frankly I hope that Ford is reading these comments! This is essentially a "no cost" brain Storming session, from which, their organization can glean valuable input / insights!

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