Cold Starts and Multiple Hybrid Engine starts

[HeyBales]

Meaning that someone who drives their car for five minutes to go to work and then five minutes to go home and does all short local trips and doesn't change their oil often because they mistakenly think they're okay because they don't have a lot of miles on the engine or oil, can do a lot more damage to their engine than an engine that gets started and stopped a lot but gets up to temp and driven longer distances and the oil gets changed per conditions.

I know this because in the mid 70's the shop across from where I lived, worked on a mail carrier's car and after tear down, you could not tell what some of the internal engine parts were because they had sooooo much sludge when it failed. I'll have to dig up the pics I took of that engine.
If he had changed his oil on a time based model, he would have been in better shape.

I think that description of bad usage scenario obviously applies to any vehicle engine, ICE and hybrid.
At least oils today help out much more than they use to. Obviously to a point.

And that description of usage is what has been mentioned for so many years as not great (posts about 1988 reminds me I heard about it as teenager, which included battery too) - so if a person paid attention, even to perhaps some user manuals mentioning that as extreme driving, they'd be covered by doing oil earlier.

Kind of like drivers familiar with turbo's know it's not great to run them hard, then almost immediately park and shutdown.
Or not constant hard usage without considering it extreme usage for oil change cycle.
If someone doesn't know, then their 1st turbo replacement will inform them.
If they can't tell when turbo is coming on, they'll learn if they are heavy user or not.

I test drove Maverick EB just to confirm truck size and usage ability, did the city route close to work, highway back. My normal usage appeared to be onto highway - that was it. Probably brief usage if I needed to pass someone because I failed to plan for a slow down.
At least 1 usage, maybe 2, per day of the turbo. Why am I betting that would not be considered extreme.

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[AutobahnSHO]

Yes, I did watch the video. And I certainly agree that Mobil 1 is a good oil. I simply prefer to change oil at old school intervals and put fresh clean oil and new filter in every 3K. Been doing this since new on my 2017 F150 King Ranch 3.5 as well. It has 40K now and no issues and runs great.

LOL and I was ignoring the oil change intervals, just doing it when I had time/ money (probably 2-3x the recommended intervals) and ran cars 200k+ miles just great. Hondas and Fords.

 

[inline_five]

It Turns Out, Hybrids Are Really Hard On Engines | Watch

This Info should keep you guys from running out of spec engine oil In your Hybrid.

I bet I get flamed for this PMSL

Of note, I recently saw a European operators manual for a Toyota. It stipulated 0W-20 for vehicles in certain "emissions zones" and 5W-30 for those outside.

Really makes you go hmmmm.

 

[The Real Maverick]

I simply prefer to change oil at old school intervals and put fresh clean oil and new filter in every 3K. Been doing this since new on my 2017 F150 King Ranch 3.5 as well. It has 40K now and no issues and runs great.

I simply prefer not to eat kale and I've never had cancer. Therefore I'm never going to eat kale to prevent cancer.

Makes sense doesn't it.

 

[The Real Maverick]

5 mile trip. Impressive. Do it for a 300 mile trip and I will be impressed. I got 35 mpg on a 99 mile trip but I know the EB does not get that all the time. Small sampling is not accurate.

When not towing, I get at least 700 miles per tank. A lot of the time 750 miles. Two times, 800 miles. 840 was my best.

What does that work out to?

I do this five days a week.

 

[Ryom]

When not towing, I get at least 700 miles per tank. A lot of the time 750 miles. Two times, 800 miles. 840 was my best.

What does that work out to?

I do this five days a week.

That's 56% fewer hours on the ICE engine versus a non-hybrid. Probably inconsequential in the long run

 

[The Real Maverick]

Of note, I recently saw a European operators manual for a Toyota. It stipulated 0W-20 for vehicles in certain "emissions zones" and 5W-30 for those outside.

Really makes you go hmmmm.

I would say it is not noteworthy at all.
Toyota information posted in a Ford forum. People making assumptions is usually not a good thing.

 

[HeyBales]

Of note, I recently saw a European operators manual for a Toyota. It stipulated 0W-20 for vehicles in certain "emissions zones" and 5W-30 for those outside.

Really makes you go hmmmm.

So is that comment about 0W-20 being the manufacturing fill only apply to the EURO V/VI models, or is that an info footnote for both sets of models?

That is interesting, like our engines would prefer this, but because of emissions it'll handle this too.
Unless that footnote is regarding both model sets, and actually that is the preferred weight.

Have to find those Maverick manuals for other countries that show is it 5W-30, and what is the footnote for that info.

 

[inline_five]

So is that comment about 0W-20 being the manufacturing fill only apply to the EURO V/VI models, or is that an info footnote for both sets of models?

That is interesting, like our engines would prefer this, but because of emissions it'll handle this too.
Unless that footnote is regarding both model sets, and actually that is the preferred weight.

Have to find those Maverick manuals for other countries that show is it 5W-30, and what is the footnote for that info.

Here's another weird one. This time in a hybrid.

2004-2009 Prius, 5W-30.
2012-2019 Prius C, same engine as 2004-2009 Prius, calls for 0W-20.

Here is the post:

Toyota dealer used 5W30 in June then 0W20 in December. Is this anything to worry about? I do 5000 mile/6 month changes. : r/AskMechanics

Seems pretty clear to me, 5W-30 is best choice, but due to emissions (mpg?) they require 0W-20 for those countries it was used in.

Some more fun:

Escape, 2.5l duratec, running 5W-30 for 12,000 miles. Basically zero wear:

2010 Ford Escape 2.5L 12K Miles on Edge EP 5W-30 | BobIsTheOilGuy

Personal opinion only, but we'd probably be fine with 0W-20 or 5W-30. If you're in the desert SW, I might think about changing to 5W-30 but I'm nowhere near that temp on a regular basis. Plus, warranty coverage on the motor would be void.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Agee we are splitting hairs here on the oil.

Personally I'd lean one way or the other based on climate.

North of 45° Latitude 0w20 seems prudent. South of 35° 5w30.

In the middle, coin toss.

 

[Cherokee]

it’s just like running our stock tires to get the best mpg. The minute we go to taller fatter heavier tires we lose mpg’s.
In goes 5w instead of 0W more resistance.
To a degree.

 

[inline_five]

Agee we are splitting hairs here on the oil.

Personally I'd lean one way or the other based on climate.

North of 45° Latitude 0w20 seems prudent. South of 35° 5w30.

In the middle, coin toss.

Ultimately, regardless of oil used, and unless a stroke of bad luck, the engine and transmission will be the last thing to fail on our hybrids. It's the rest of the vehicle I'm concerned about lol.

 

[Cherokee]

Story,
My tour at Minot AFB ended in early May.
I stuffed my Honda Interstate/1100 Gold wing
Into a crate and it was picked up headed to Hamburg West Germany.

My buddy was headed for Okinawa. He decided to ride his Harley FXWB wide glide to Florida and I’d drive his 1956 Chevy Pick up along with him, yes we switched off several times a day.
About the time we got to Tennessee he blew his engine. Thank God I was not on it because the Biker Code says I’d have to get his bike fixed.

So we put it up in his truck and soldiered on.
About the time we hit the Florida line it hit us like a ton of bricks.
He forgot to stop and change to thicker oil when the temps got up above 50F.
Yep blew the crap out of the head gasket and the base gasket.

 

[Seand1109]

It Turns Out, Hybrids Are Really Hard On Engines | Watch

This Info should keep you guys from running out of spec engine oil In your Hybrid.

I bet I get flamed for this PMSL

First a foremost, I am not flaming you but would like to point out a few things the video mislead on...

1. The Video leads one to believe the only way water would leave the engine oil is once the temp reaches the boiling point... not true. Evaporation rate does drastically increase an temperature increases. Easily proven, fill a measuring cup of water filled to say, one cup. Leave it on the kitchen counter for a few days and see how much water is left. Place the cup outside if you like it will evaporate quicker depending on humidity, air movement and sunlight. And yes boiling would make it more efficient and quicker. If this were such a problem, just run the car in Sport mode once a week. You can have a bit of a thrill racing around town and when you get pulled over, you can tell the nice officer you were just getting the water out of your oil.

2. Yes water is a byproduct of combustion in the combustion chamber. How much bypasses the rings is questionable, likely minuscule. Which raises the question at what level is the water contamination harmful to the motor. So this water contamination does also affect engines used on short drives, including ICE cars. Which is why the PVC value is important for all cars to aid in the removal of all gases; water is not the only contaminant that occurs in the combustion chamber that is vented by the PVC.

3. There are plenty of Hybrids running around that have 200k or more with no engine problems, or at least not presenting issues. I am sure there might be some extra wear but I do not believe anyone has broken down and mic checked the engine parts for serviceability. But the ones I know of have tremendous miles on them and only one had a battery change after 200K.

4. What is the rate of the evaporation in the engine? This is a question that is often ignored in other areas like climate change. Example CO2... how much are we really raising the CO2 Level. We are without a doubt but I have never heard anyone state how much atmosphere is there? Math shows us that there is over 5.4 quadrillion tons of atmosphere and we produce, globally, 350 billion tons of CO2 annually. Sounds like a lot but actually statistically we could stop all CO2 production tomorrow and there would not be a serious reduction for over a thousand years. Which is why I have a gas guzzler; F250 89 with a 460, a Class A pusher with a Cat C9, a Tesla, and a hybrid Nav. Because each has a purpose that makes them useful.

So is the amount of water getting past the rings, Left after being vented by the PVC getting into the oil that is engineered to actually work with it, something to really be concerned about... Knowing a few Hybrid drives that have had them for well over a decade, I think not.

 

[Seand1109]

If you trust the engineering and factory recommendations for your hybrid why 3k oil changes? Did you watch the video? It literally said the Mobil 1 hybrid oil is good for 15k miles under worst case scenario.

Ya, I kinda agree with you on that but to let it go the full 15K doesn't feel right. I use to work at an engine rebuild shop. I pulled and stripped the motors and saw what bad oil does to an engine. I also , and more often, saw what bad owners did which was not check the oil levels or oil condition. I just past the 1000 mile breaking period and changed my oil. It bugged me that is wasn't even a part of the maintenance schedule. Owners manual says to just drive it nicely. We use to recommend changing the oil 500 milage, So me letting it go to the 1000 mile level bugged me. but I will be checking it and will send out a sample, at my expense, like I do for the Cat C9 and the Allison trans in the RV. But 15k just blows this boomers mind.

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