Ford delays new EV pickup to 2027

[The Real Maverick]

I can't wait for an all electric future. Think of all the complexities of the modern (gas) automobile

It hit me when I was waiting for a part at Advance Auto, as I was browsing the shelves. 85% of the stuff on them was for gasoline vehicles.

More like 97% but ya.

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[colinl]

The ecoboost can't deliver the efficiency of the normally aspirated atkinson motor with an ECVT. Ecoboost is great for a wide power band and the discrete gearing of an automatic. It isn't ideal for the ECVT with a narrow rpm range.

you probably ought to read the post that I'm replying to back in August that you've quoted just now. you missed the context.

ecoboost isn't going anywhere. it's going to continue to be the performance option in anything that isn't an EV.

 

[Snox801]

I can't wait for an all electric future. Think of all the complexities of the modern automobile, you get rid of thousands of parts and points of failure. Spark plugs, PCV vales, evap canisters, coils, mass airflow sensors, fuel pumps, transmissions...the list is endless. Heck, even brake jobs will basically be a thing of the past.

It hit me when I was waiting for a part at Advance Auto, as I was browsing the shelves. 85% of the stuff on them was for gasoline vehicles.

Yep cause nobody ever has problems with the cell phone in hand or anything with electric motor. Have you never owned an rc car?
Only difference will be instead of you going to auto zone you will be waiting on service dept.

 

[Snox801]

I didn't "cherry pick" the one vehicle they used that was the one vehicle they used so even you Midwesterners should understand that I had no other vehicles to choose from.
Name one non hybrid - hybrid means part ICE part EV - that has doubled efficiency with the same capacity engine.
What's cheaper to manufacture and sell a car with a cat and emissions controls or the identical vehicle with none of the above? Obviously the cheaper one the market would choose is the one that pollutes more and the more expensive one is cleaner. Hence the reason why the government needed to mandate emissions controls in the mid 70's . The "big 3" whined that it would put them out of business and cede the auto market to the Japanese. Sounds familiar?

Yes Cheryl picked that was on the heavy side of the vehicles tested. Point is heavy cars cause more tire dust. EV’s are heavier for the same model car.
So no matter what type of mental gymnastics you try that is fact. One most people gloss over when trying to justify a clean ev.

As for ice engines cleaner. EPA has the 2008 f-150 5.4 with a 11-14mpg rating.
the 2018 has a 22-24 mpg rating. Not only that but has almost doubled the power.
So in that short time the mpg jumped and power also. Now cut back power and mpg goes up again.

My point is you are constantly refer to the wait till this tech comes out for the ev market. But you go out of your way to ever concede how far I’ve came.
That’s why I can’t take your arguments serious. You can’t even acknowledge the valid points other make. You just keep trying to sell ev like it has already won the market.

Bottom line is we simply don’t know ev’s have advantages over ice and ice over ev. Tesla proved that they have a market that also doesn’t need to be mandated. Elon knows more about ev’s than you or I could ever learn. Even he admits the mandate is no good.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Yes Cheryl picked that was on the heavy side of the vehicles tested. Point is heavy cars cause more tire dust. EV’s are heavier for the same model car.
So no matter what type of mental gymnastics you try that is fact. One most people gloss over when trying to justify a clean ev.

As for ice engines cleaner. EPA has the 2008 f-150 5.4 with a 11-14mpg rating.
the 2018 has a 22-24 mpg rating. Not only that but has almost doubled the power.
So in that short time the mpg jumped and power also. Now cut back power and mpg goes up again.

My point is you are constantly refer to the wait till this tech comes out for the ev market. But you go out of your way to ever concede how far I’ve came.
That’s why I can’t take your arguments serious. You can’t even acknowledge the valid points other make. You just keep trying to sell ev like it has already won the market.

Bottom line is we simply don’t know ev’s have advantages over ice and ice over ev. Tesla proved that they have a market that also doesn’t need to be mandated. Elon knows more about ev’s than you or I could ever learn. Even he admits the mandate is no good.

So you make sure your cars are all nice and light?
You're not even attempting to be serious, you're attempting to find problems in something you don't like while ignoring those in the tech you like. The vast majority of advances in ICEVs involving pollution are due to government MANDATES yet you continually claim mandates are ineffective. The market never demanded cleaner cars. Also to paraphrase you said " if the tech was better it wouldn't need mandates or incentives" . Which is ridiculous. Older entrenched tech is usually cheaper(especially if it requires infrastructure) and more polluting hence why carrots ( tax credits, rebates etc ..) or sticks ( mandates, taxes or tariffs) are usually needed to prevent a new technology from dying in the cradle. I prefer the carrot approach.
Again using your market only decides approach cars never would have had emissions controls. The American car manufacturers argued in the 70's they would kill the industry and made your argument that the customers weren't demanding them. If they were optional who would pay thousands extra for them? Most adults realize the market is great for some things but not everyday. In closing my idea of a great car to drive is a NA ICEV w a 6 SPD manual and rwd not an EV

 

[Gonzo chris]

Yep cause nobody ever has problems with the cell phone in hand or anything with electric motor. Have you never owned an rc car?
Only difference will be instead of you going to auto zone you will be waiting on service dept.

Well both are dependable but electric motors are more so . I work with them regularly and they have few moving parts, less maintenance etc. I have a couple of cars that are due for transmission, rear axle, coolant, and brake fluid changes coolant hoses , oil and filter , spark plugs etc. a lot of that won't be necessary

 

[Snox801]

True but my point is other things will more than likely need to be addressed. They may be better but so far I have far more issues with my phone, and laptop than I do with my cars and trucks.
Neither of which get driven in the salt and snow.
All will be figured in time though.

 

[Snox801]

So you make sure your cars are all nice and light?
You're not even attempting to be serious, you're attempting to find problems in something you don't like while ignoring those in the tech you like. The vast majority of advances in ICEVs involving pollution are due to government MANDATES yet you continually claim mandates are ineffective. The market never demanded cleaner cars. Also to paraphrase you said " if the tech was better it wouldn't need mandates or incentives" . Which is ridiculous. Older entrenched tech is usually cheaper(especially if it requires infrastructure) and more polluting hence why carrots ( tax credits, rebates etc ..) or sticks ( mandates, taxes or tariffs) are usually needed to prevent a new technology from dying in the cradle. I prefer the carrot approach.
Again using your market only decides approach cars never would have had emissions controls. The American car manufacturers argued in the 70's they would kill the industry and made your argument that the customers weren't demanding them. If they were optional who would pay thousands extra for them? Most adults realize the market is great for some things but not everyday. In closing my idea of a great car to drive is a NA ICEV w a 6 SPD manual and rwd not an EV

You didn’t understand my point about the weight.
First for similar models evs are heavier that’s my point. If I bought an ev of the maverick it would weigh more this produce more tire dust. Nothing more or less. My truck is heavy but the 150 lighting is much heavier. Apples to apples was my point.

You took a heavy suv from the report and said “see” well take same suv and make it ev and it’s worse that was my point.
And yes the technology would drive sales
Point
Ev doesn’t have good range for long travel and fast recharge like gas.
If that tech develops then they will indeed beat the ice.
It’s not always the cheaper one that wins.
If that was the case no high trim vehicles would sell.
The market is the only way to drive anything. Your point is proven wrong just in this site alone. Heck they have full marketing campaigns to tout how clean and green stuff is. People willing buy the cleaner and greener stuff.
Happens everyday with every product. Go to the store and look at orange drink and 100 percent orange juice. Which cost more and which is better for people.
People willing spend more for clean cars. Again Tesla is a good example. You will not save money driving one. But people spend the money because the idea of green, and others for performance.

 

[SLINGSHOT]

Yes Cheryl picked that was on the heavy side of the vehicles tested. Point is heavy cars cause more tire dust. EV’s are heavier for the same model car.
So no matter what type of mental gymnastics you try that is fact. One most people gloss over when trying to justify a clean ev.

As for ice engines cleaner. EPA has the 2008 f-150 5.4 with a 11-14mpg rating.
the 2018 has a 22-24 mpg rating. Not only that but has almost doubled the power.
So in that short time the mpg jumped and power also. Now cut back power and mpg goes up again.

My point is you are constantly refer to the wait till this tech comes out for the ev market. But you go out of your way to ever concede how far I’ve came.
That’s why I can’t take your arguments serious. You can’t even acknowledge the valid points other make. You just keep trying to sell ev like it has already won the market.

Bottom line is we simply don’t know ev’s have advantages over ice and ice over ev. Tesla proved that they have a market that also doesn’t need to be mandated. Elon knows more about ev’s than you or I could ever learn. Even he admits the mandate is no good.

I tried to read this post. I really did. But, eventually, I gave up.

 

[Gonzo chris]

True but my point is other things will more than likely need to be addressed. They may be better but so far I have far more issues with my phone, and laptop than I do with my cars and trucks.
Neither of which get driven in the salt and snow.
All will be figured in time though.

I would think most of the issues with your laptop or phone or software related. EVs do not have to be more complicated in that regard they have been made that way because manufacturers think they will appeal to people who are obsessed with tech. Yes they will not be perfect, as I have said before, in every situation now and they will not even be preferable. As for things that need to be addressed the way you address them is to address them. You know put some big brains at it. You don't say oh well and throw your hands up. But just because they won't be the best maybe in the snow or pulling an RV up Mount Everest doesn't mean they won't be good for 98% of the suburban SUV kiddie haulers I see daily

 

[Gonzo chris]

You didn’t understand my point about the weight.
First for similar models evs are heavier that’s my point. If I bought an ev of the maverick it would weigh more this produce more tire dust. Nothing more or less. My truck is heavy but the 150 lighting is much heavier. Apples to apples was my point.

You took a heavy suv from the report and said “see” well take same suv and make it ev and it’s worse that was my point.
And yes the technology would drive sales
Point
Ev doesn’t have good range for long travel and fast recharge like gas.
If that tech develops then they will indeed beat the ice.
It’s not always the cheaper one that wins.
If that was the case no high trim vehicles would sell.
The market is the only way to drive anything. Your point is proven wrong just in this site alone. Heck they have full marketing campaigns to tout how clean and green stuff is. People willing buy the cleaner and greener stuff.
Happens everyday with every product. Go to the store and look at orange drink and 100 percent orange juice. Which cost more and which is better for people.
People willing spend more for clean cars. Again Tesla is a good example. You will not save money driving one. But people spend the money because the idea of green, and others for performance.

I guess you're just never going to get what I'm saying. I understand things like recharging times although hyundai, not Ford though definitely not ford, have vehicles that can 80% recharge in 15 minutes. That's really not that bad. Your obsession with the best product for the person's need is completely missing my point I can see that the market is great for that what I'm saying is that the market is a blind pig looking for a truffle when it comes to things like wanting to breathe clean air. Let's be honest about it when people talk about the environment they have been painted as some vegan sandal wearing hippie but the environment is just where we live in the air we breathe. So the market is not going to convince somebody to buy something that is currently a little more expensive and has in some situations more inconveniences. That is why in the past the market has been steered in a direction that a civilized society might deem better for us. In other words individuals will do what's best for them but that's not necessarily what's best for us all in the long run.
I am not a religious guy about anything even about religion. So I'm not religious about the market. The competition makes for higher quality products at the best price possible but that's not the only thing that a person with a brain worries about. Again you have never told me how the market achieved putting catalytic converters and emissions controls on cars. Cuz they didn't. Because people didn't go to the dealer and ask for things that didn't exist yet, most people aren't smart enough to think or engineer things.. Plus people usually don't volunteer to spend more money on something for the greater good..... It's like Henry Ford said if I ask people what to make them they would have said a faster horse....
Happy thanksgiving

 

[Bob The Builder]

The ecoboost can't deliver the efficiency of the normally aspirated atkinson motor with an ECVT. Ecoboost is great for a wide power band and the discrete gearing of an automatic. It isn't ideal for the ECVT with a narrow rpm range.

It was ideal for me back in 22 when I ordered my Maverick. Never could have gotten AWD without it.

 

[Bob The Builder]

Why are you saying you want gas prices to Double?

How in hell is losing EV subsidies or lower cafe standards going to double gas prices? I do not recall stating that in my post.

Now, when talking California I have no idea the logic of their thinking or what makes them tick for that matter so I cannot speak for that.

 

[The Real Maverick]

How in hell is losing EV subsidies or lower cafe standards going to double gas prices? I do not recall stating that in my post.

You want to get rid of all subsidies.
If you cut subsidies to the oil industry the price per gallon will be $8 to $10.

I figured you knew that since pretty much everyone understands our government is keeping gasoline and diesel artificially low through massive subsidies and as outers pointed out, massive military support.

 

[Gonzo chris]

How in hell is losing EV subsidies or lower cafe standards going to double gas prices? I do not recall stating that in my post.

Now, when talking California I have no idea the logic of their thinking or what makes them tick for that matter so I cannot speak for that.

He's referring to the subsidies for getting gas to the pump. When you grow up with something you just take it for granted. The aircraft carrier groups in the Persian Gulf were paid for by the taxpayers and they aren't cheap. They're there to ensure the free flow of oil. I'm not saying I'm against but if you're going to complain about subsidies you should be fair about it

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