Ford delays new EV pickup to 2027

[Gonzo chris]

Shocking they get pushback not from consumers but from the unions they need support from. I’d say the fact they even started off with a mandate is the real issue. Bet 5 min after the election these will be adjusted again.
That also doesnt address the fact you said none is mandating ev. Yes they are but nice try.

No they are mandating emissions standards, how to design that better mousetrap is open to innovation.
As to the other you might be disappointed

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[Gonzo chris]

First off what you’re doing is just flat out nonsense. Name one person or even better anyone here willing to drive a car that does that?
Maybe someone would but the minute you can prove it has caused harm and or loses to you you can litigate that. Much similar to other products that caused harm. We did not need the government to mandate we get rid of baby powder because it cause cancer. We had a class action lawsuit that proved it cause harm and a settlement. Now it has warning labels for safe use. We didn’t ban cigarettes either. My point is the system can work.
You conveniently glossed over the fact that a government mandate is what would cause the electric grid to be overwhelmed. Like you said why would a private company do something in advance.
I simply pointed out states have made mandates and your response was simply well they will roll them back if it doesn’t work out.
What if they don’t roll them back? That like me saying you better give me $100 right now or I’ll smash my fist into your face. You have to take it as a real threat. It’s a 50/50 as far as you know. I may actually do it if you don’t or, I find out you don’t have it and say lol just kidding you have till next week.

Yes, like the border wall or real cheap, " tremendous" healthcare promises - just kidding. I wouldn't worry about the punch much TBH.
Again if it makes you feel good to think you have a free market and total choice feel free. Dress up as Daniel Boone if you want. But for the millionth time the government already sets a ton of regs regarding cars you're just used to them. Emissions limits have become more stringent over time as well, you're just upset because you think this is coming from the wrong Americans

 

[OleFordGuy]

Decent article related to the thread subject matter imo.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...n&cvid=bbfdec3af8db480db5474c720443ffac&ei=33

 

[inline_five]

I think there’s valid points in both our discussions, I’m not necessarily a hater or lover of any propulsion method their is theirs pros and cons to all and certain methods fit different people and that’s great, but I do feel strongly that the freedom to choose a power source type fits best for an individual’s circumstance. Infrastructure has a long way to go currently for the major population currently, hybrid is probably the best route for many now but traditional ice will still have its place for a long time imo.

Your "freedom" to choose ICE is limited to being able to purchase gas via hydrocarbons that someone/company drilled out of the ground, refined, shipped, and sold to you.

Remember the Colonial pipeline hack? I live in the SE and it started to get real I am Legend-ish here, people were going nuts.

You think you're given a choice, you are not really, you take what limited options are available.

EV infrastructure is no where near where it needs to be, however that can be fixed over time. ICE will always be beholden to numerous outside entities harvesting, refining, and shipping the gasoline vs EVs which can be powered via locally generated electricity if desired.

 

[Snox801]

Yes, like the border wall or real cheap, ", tremendous" healthcare promises - just kidding. I wouldn't worry about the punch much TBH.

You nailed it. And just made my point nobody should dismiss what we are told by government even if they back off.
That’s not the right way no matter who does it. It’s like setting standards for your kids with repercussions if not met then simply bending and giving in.
As for the punch it was a nicer way than saying a gun. But may also show your intelligence. I many times have thought you to be a very smart man. But boy I’ve never met anyone who wouldn’t worry about a punch. lol. Even as much as Ive enjoyed kickboxing I never would say I wouldn’t worry about it.

Point being the government does everything at the end of a gun when it come down to it. Eventually it’s enforced at the end of a gun.
So point still stands you said no government mandated ev I pointed out they have. Then you said oh they will roll them back. That’s not how it works.
We need to hold everyone accountable for what they say and do. From kids to politicians.
Your line of thinking on any side of the idle is wrong.

 

[OleFordGuy]

Your "freedom" to choose ICE is limited to being able to purchase gas via hydrocarbons that someone/company drilled out of the ground, refined, shipped, and sold to you.

Remember the Colonial pipeline hack? I live in the SE and it started to get real I am Legend-ish here, people were going nuts.

You think you're given a choice, you are not really, you take what limited options are available.

EV infrastructure is no where near where it needs to be, however that can be fixed over time. ICE will always be beholden to numerous outside entities harvesting, refining, and shipping the gasoline vs EVs which can be powered via locally generated electricity if desired.

And they'll continue to be gas stations all around. Hybrids will need gas available also. I don't disagree that EV's won't be mainstream given time, its just imo it's just going to take a good amount of time for the infrastructure to support them to be in place for the mass majority of people throughout the entire US.

 

[Snox801]

Yes, like the border wall or real cheap, " tremendous" healthcare promises - just kidding. I wouldn't worry about the punch much TBH.
Again if it makes you feel good to think you have a free market and total choice feel free. Dress up as Daniel Boone if you want. But for the millionth time the government already sets a ton of regs regarding cars you're just used to them. Emissions limits have become more stringent over time as well, you're just upset because you think this is coming from the wrong Americans

Reply to after the edit. Yes it does make me feel good what’s the other alternative. Someone like you never pushing back? That’s the only thing that gives us balance. Yes I enjoy my freedom. Hence why when people such as yourself keep wanting to chip away at them I feel the need to counterpoint. You clearly think that’s some kind of dig but that cuts both ways we also don’t live in your utopia either where everyone drives ev’s that run on magic. So looks like we both get to go on being unhappy about things we can’t control.

 

[Gonzo chris]

You nailed it. And just made my point nobody should dismiss what we are told by government even if they back off.
That’s not the right way no matter who does it. It’s like setting standards for your kids with repercussions if not met then simply bending and giving in.
As for the punch it was a nicer way than saying a gun. But may also show your intelligence. I many times have thought you to be a very smart man. But boy I’ve never met anyone who wouldn’t worry about a punch. lol. Even as much as Ive enjoyed kickboxing I never would say I wouldn’t worry about it.

Point being the government does everything at the end of a gun when it come down to it. Eventually it’s enforced at the end of a gun.
So point still stands you said no government mandated ev I pointed out they have. Then you said oh they will roll them back. That’s not how it works.
We need to hold everyone accountable for what they say and do. From kids to politicians.
Your line of thinking on any side of the idle is wrong.

Yes it's the government, they TELL you what to do regarding laws. Have you never paid taxes? The government forced Ford to put a catalytic converter on your Maverick. You and Ford survived.
The Reuters article clearly said stricter emissions standards, how the companies meet those standards is open. That's where competition comes in.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Reply to after the edit. Yes it does make me feel good what’s the other alternative. Someone like you never pushing back? That’s the only thing that gives us balance. Yes I enjoy my freedom. Hence why when people such as yourself keep wanting to chip away at them I feel the need to counterpoint. You clearly think that’s some kind of dig but that cuts both ways we also don’t live in your utopia either where everyone drives ev’s that run on magic. So looks like we both get to go on being unhappy about things we can’t control.

I want to do what I want when I want to but I'm an adult and realize that's not how it works , I don't want anyone telling me what to do but that's life, . Freedom is always limited, read Jefferson. You're deluded if you think the government doesn't control what cars are allowed to be sold. But I get it, I like freedom as well and sometimes wish I could put a sticker in my back window and think I'm a freedom fighter. You are the one in a fantasy land where in a world of 7 billion everyone just does what they want.
BTW EVs run on electricity, does gas magically appear in your tank? Nope there's a massive infrastructure in place to get it there.

 

[Snox801]

I want to do what I want when I want to but I'm an adult and realize that's not how it works , I don't want anyone telling me what to do but that's life, . Freedom is always limited, read Jefferson. You're deluded if you think the government doesn't control what cars are allowed to be sold. But I get it, I like freedom as well and sometimes wish I could put a sticker in my back window and think I'm a freedom fighter. You are the one in a fantasy land where in a world of 7 billion everyone just does what they want.
BTW EVs run on electricity, does gas magically appear in your tank? Nope there's a massive infrastructure in place to get it there.

Ok nowhere did I say that we were free. Unlike you I live in reality. I wish we could be more free. I have more faith in people doing better job without a small few thinking they know best.
You seem to be perfectly fine allowing them to just keep regulating everything.

Second you seem to not understand that I’m not saying and never had said we can’t have regulations. But the fact that these mandates are being imposed by agencies that have not been elected. We have law makers that are voted in. They pass laws for the people. Currently we have the unelected epa that’s just passing regulations that are not law and thus not legal. Hence why chevron got shot down by the courts this year .
If you understood more how our system is supposed to work you would understand my take.
Or keep saying it not perfect while bending over to every whim.
I bet if the shoe was on the other foot you would be screaming.

 

[Snox801]

Yes it's the government, they TELL you what to do regarding laws. Have you never paid taxes? The government forced Ford to put a catalytic converter on your Maverick. You and Ford survived.
The Reuters article clearly said stricter emissions standards, how the companies meet those standards is open. That's where competition comes in.

If that was true why need ev mandate? Keep ignoring the Artical I posted that stated the California mandate.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Ok nowhere did I say that we were free. Unlike you I live in reality. I wish we could be more free. I have more faith in people doing better job without a small few thinking they know best.
You seem to be perfectly fine allowing them to just keep regulating everything.

Second you seem to not understand that I’m not saying and never had said we can’t have regulations. But the fact that these mandates are being imposed by agencies that have not been elected. We have law makers that are voted in. They pass laws for the people. Currently we have the unelected epa that’s just passing regulations that are not law and thus not legal. Hence why chevron got shot down by the courts this year .
If you understood more how our system is supposed to work you would understand my take.
Or keep saying it not perfect while bending over to every whim.
I bet if the shoe was on the other foot you would be screaming.

What other foot ?
As for the system and how it's supposed to work it's not 1800

 

[inline_five]

And they'll continue to be gas stations all around. Hybrids will need gas available also. I don't disagree that EV's won't be mainstream given time, its just imo it's just going to take a good amount of time for the infrastructure to support them to be in place for the mass majority of people throughout the entire US.

Absolutely, it's going to take a long time for the switchover to occur and there will probably still be some places EVs just are not feasible.

 

[Gonzo chris]

If that was true why need ev mandate? Keep ignoring the Artical I posted that stated the California mandate.

What article? If California does that they elected those reps, if they don't like it elect new ones. That's why it's called REPRESENTATIVE government

 

[Snox801]

I ignore grid comments. It's sad how Americans have a can't do attitude.
Saw a coal roller an hour ago. The "who would do that?" applies to almost every reasonable law so get rid of all laws. I feel that way about pedophilia but unfortunately not all do. A threat? Civics class failed you: the government makes laws and rules you don't have to agree with them all. I don't either.
So how many emissions controls did car companies install in their own? How many did the market give us? Answer is none to both questions. Anarchy is not representative government.
So everyone in those states will be walking or have no electricity? Lol

Ok what happens when you don’t do what the government says?
They take your money or freedom at gun point. And what you fail to understand is the difference between laws and mandates. All what you have said about emissions is not a single law passed by congress and signed by the president.
So one of use seems to understand the difference the other not so much

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