National Park Service Will Cite Drivers Of AWD Cars For Driving On 4WD-Only Trails

[TheShark]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...n&cvid=559f70e7a19642d493c30d37ab2a7573&ei=23

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[jesemd]

This made me mad enough that I dug deeper. The news story, like most today was worthless if you are actually trying to understand the facts. The Subie driver was notified that he had driven on a road designated for "High Clearance 4x4 Vehicles Only". The NPS defines:

A high clearance 4WD vehicle is defined as a SUV or truck type vehicle, with at least 15 inch tire rims or more, with a low gear transfer case, designed for heavier type use than a standard passenger vehicle, with at least 8 inches of clearance or more from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential, to the ground, also including a means to mechanically power both, front and rear wheels at the same time.

Now, I guess the person watching the camera footage and sending letters assumed he had NOT installed a NP208 gear driven low range transfer case in his Crosstrek, and as there seemed to be no fine involved, I guess that is an acceptable assumption.

However, if the NPS is going to start putting people in federal prison for 6 months for not knowing about their driveline specs, they should do a better explaining the rules. A QR code on the trailhead sign, that takes you to a website with a list of prohibited and allowed vehicles would suffice and take only about 2 hours to create.

If you really wanted to take your Mav, you could throw an old transfer case in the bed and go. The regulation never said the transfer case had to be connected...

 

[Bwicka]

As far as court is concerned the only law enforcement in California that can issue enforceable vehicle conformance tickets or equipment fix it tickets that can hold up on this situation would be a d.o.t. Trained highway patrol officer or a policeman sent to the about 6 month training for vehicle and parts legal inspections . I.e. if you get written and or towed for headlocks and non dot wheels they have to be trained , brake inspections or overloaded they have to be trained,etc.etc.
lights/ lamps and bald tires ,missing mirror,tint , obvious visual can be enforced and testified by a normal officer .
but driveline specifics would have to be a trained d.o.t. Officer.
a judge may accept the 8” measurement , but I’m at 12” on the tremor already.

 

[Montana]

So....

The driver, who had no idea there was a difference between AWD and 4WD, successfully navigated the trail.

I'd argue the trail isn't that serious then

 

[NoVaJimmy]

I have gone places in my GX I never could have in my Maverick while overlanding. Recently I got stuck in a mud pit, put my GX in 4 low and ticked on crawl control and I was out in a couple of minutes. Never could have done that in my Mav. While I think a lot of these trails are easily navigable by an AWD Maverick, there are a lot of clueless people who think their AWD Ford escape is meant for rock crawling and ruin it for those of you who at least are somewhat prepared with AWD (proper tires, recovery gear, added ground clearance). It is what it is

 

[todd92]

So even though the facts are this was nothing about AWD vs 4WD but about ground clearance and low speed transfer case, this thread will still blossom into pages and pages of arguing about AWD and government overreach.

 

[Hot Runr Guy]

a judge may accept the 8” measurement , but I’m at 12” on the tremor already.

But, but, but, no low gear transfer case.

You Will Need A High Clearance Four-Wheel-Drive (4WD) Vehicle

A high clearance 4WD vehicle is defined as a SUV or truck type vehicle, with at least 15 inch tire rims or more, with a low gear transfer case, designed for heavier type use than a standard passenger vehicle, with at least 8 inches of clearance or more from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential, to the ground, also including a means to mechanically power both, front and real wheels at the same time.

https://www.nps.gov/thingstodo/explore-backcountry-roads.htm

HRG

 

[Johnny maverick]

Ive been off-roadingI since my dads intertrashinal 800 in the 70s I cut my 4x4 teeth with my 84 Subaru wagon which had low range. Then I got a AMC eagle. I've had 50+4x4s in my life. I think that recovery equipment is more important . Winches, straps come-alongs. Etc. Picking the correct line has more of an affect than vehicle capability. I have have a Rubicon for my wheeling up here in NH. Skill level plays a huge part of off-roading not the vehicle. I seen people get their 37" tired jeep stuck as I drove around them in a stock rig. Some people just belong on the road not off. With the right person behind wheel my maverick with 245s is way more capable than an idiot in a big lifted jeep.

 

[James K]

Ive been off-roadingI since my dads intertrashinal 800 in the 70s I cut my 4x4 teeth with my 84 Subaru wagon which had low range. Then I got a AMC eagle. I've had 50+4x4s in my life. I think that recovery equipment is more important . Winches, straps come-alongs. Etc. Picking the correct line has more of an affect than vehicle capability. I have have a Rubicon for my wheeling up here in NH. Skill level plays a huge part of off-roading not the vehicle. I seen people get their 37" tired jeep stuck as I drove around them in a stock rig. Some people just belong on the road not off. With the right person behind wheel my maverick with 245s is way more capable than an idiot in a big lifted jeep.

and some people belong on a bus.

 

[Optimus]

The writer of the MSN article doesn’t seem to understand what 4wd means. Apparently, they think it means having locking differentials in the front/rear axles. Very very few vehicles come stock with lockers, be it air or electric. And if they come with one, it’s typically just the rear, and might just be a limited slip. I may be so bold as to say the general public has no idea what lockers are, or the risk/dangers involved when used incorrectly (snapping axles, skidding tires on tight turns on pavement, sliding on icy turns).

The article writer might have had more credibility if they referred to a locking center differential, a.k.a. a traditional transfer case in a 4wd. But, me thinks they have no clue what that is either!

All the transfer case does is lock the front and rear driveshafts together in the case of switching from 2wd to 4wd in a part-time 4wd, or switching to high/low 4wd in part or full-time 4wd drives. Locking the driveshafts together distributes power front/rear evenly. Has nothing to do with locking the same axles’s tires together!

Anyone who knows traditional 4wd well enough also understands it’s really still only 2wd! And a traditional 2wd vehicle is really only 1-wheel drive. Why do I say that? Because once one wheel starts to slip, traction and power to both wheels on that axle are done (then it becomes 0-wheel drive). Thus, front/rear locking/welded differentials came to be, along with modern forms of traction control that involve things like automated braking applied to a slipping wheel.

Mind you, I have NOT read the national park’s rules, but I’m willing to bet it does not require front or rear lockers. Having owned a mid 1990’s SUV that came stock with a rare option of front and rear factory selectable electric lockers (who can guess the vehicle!?), it can be quite fun! It can also break something really fast, or get you that much more stuck.

 

[Optimus]

Most don't come with 'selectable' lockers. All pick up trucks have locked front axles and some have selectable locking rear diffs. Ford happens to offer selectable

You think all trucks come with locked front axles?? If yes, then you’re just helping prove my point. The general public does not understand what is meant by having locked axles.

“All pickup trucks” is incorrect. They do NOT all (or even a majority) come with locked front axles. Clearly you don’t understand the mechanics involved or the effects it would have on a daily driver. Why do you think they are offered as a SELECTABLE locker (vs. something like a permanent welded differential) or a limited slip? A fully locked front differential would be downright dangerous in every day road driving, with chirping tires at every corner, and the likelihood of snapping an axle. Ever wonder why, when a factory “locker” option is available, it’s typically only offered on the rear?

Have you ever bought aftermarket lockers front and/or rear, such as ARB air lockers, or bought a vehicle with them? This typically means you’re upgrading from an open diff, or a limited slip.

 

[EJRSSF]

In the swamps and hills of North Jersey, many times I had my 87 S-10 into places only dirt bikes and 3 wheelers had ever seen. Usually without having to use 4WD. Learned the hard way not to engage 4WD while in reverse gear, blew a vacuum switch everytime. Figured it out the second maybe 3rd time. Those days are a little blurry. The S10 would go places my 78 C5 Bazer would never fit without a chainsaw.

 

[SLJ]

Don't blame them. They probably got tired of dragging little SUV's out and spending money cleaning up the spilled oil and gas from ripped up underbellies.
BTW, Federal lands are controlled and regulated by the Federal government and fall under their laws, enforcement, and jurisdiction, not the State.

 

[Bob The Builder]

Tell them the "L" button is low range and to leave me the hell alone.

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