Maverick Hybrid climbing hills / 10% grade ?

[jald3rd]

I'm planning to buy a Maverick Hybrid, the only reason I'm hesitant to reserve is I'm not sure how good the hybrid on climbing hills. my 2011 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport has only 145 of torque and always having problem climbing a 10% grade. With the Hybrid having 155 of torque, can it easily climb a 10% grade?

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[Big_T]

I'm planning to buy a Maverick Hybrid, the only reason I'm hesitant to reserve is I'm not sure how good the hybrid on climbing hills. my 2011 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport has only 145 of torque and always having problem climbing a 10% grade. With the Hybrid having 155 of torque, can it easily climb a 10% grade?

That torque rating does not include the torque produced by the electric motor. You'll be fine. Not a powerhouse supercar, but fine.

 

[Darksider]

Easily no. Better than the outlander yes. I would say it wouldnt be a issue but you will notice the incline. If you want easy best to go with 2.0.

 

[JASmith]

Horsepower is actually what matters, not torque, as this has a eCVT so it can hold itself at peak horsepower and gets electric assist off the line. Its power to weight ratio should be fine. If you wanted to test, you can maybe find a Escape Hybrid in your area more easily and see how it feels, it will be very similar.

 

[710-oil-614]

Horsepower is actually what matters, not torque, as this has a eCVT so it can hold itself at peak horsepower and gets electric assist off the line. Its power to weight ratio should be fine. If you wanted to test, you can maybe find a Escape Hybrid in your area more easily and see how it feels, it will be very similar.

True if you're moving at speed when entering the 10% grade.

 

[JASmith]

True if you're moving at speed when entering the 10% grade.

Even from a stop should be fine, the electric motor doesn't contribute much horsepower, but it does have plenty of torque to get rolling, and the eCVT isn't like a first gear where you have to chug through at low RPM waiting for the RPMs to increase linearly with speed like in a traditional automatic so it should get right into the peak of the powerband quickly if you punch it and be able to hold it there.

 

[710-oil-614]

Even from a stop should be fine, the electric motor doesn't contribute much horsepower, but it does have plenty of torque to get rolling, and the eCVT isn't like a first gear where you have to chug through at low RPM waiting for the RPMs to increase linearly with speed like in a traditional automatic so it should get right into the peak of the powerband quickly if you punch it and be able to hold it there.

I still think you are wrong in your claim only worry about HP, dead wrong actually. Torque is the power available in an engine to climb, to get to speed, to haul heavy loads. HP is the ability to sustain it.

Think of it this way - horsepower is how fast you can run into a wall. Torque is how far you can carry that wall with you.

The MavBrids will be fine because of the electric motor which will work in unison with the gas engine under heavy load providing the torque necessary to easily climb up the 10% grade.

 

[JASmith]

I still think you are wrong in your claim only worry about HP, dead wrong actually. Torque is the power available in an engine to climb, to get to speed, to haul heavy loads. HP is the ability to sustain it.

Think of it this way - horsepower is how fast you can run into a wall. Torque is how far you can carry that wall with you.

Nope, so horsepower IS literally a measure of torque, they aren't two alien things like people sometimes misunderstand.

Horsepower is just another way of saying ftlbs per minute, specifically a horsie is 33K ftlbs per minute.

Torque by itself is not work, so it doesn't really mean anything. We list peak torque only because it gives us a ballpark idea of the low to midrange power (even though torque itself is not a measure of power) without having to get specific about RPM. If an engine had no transmission, that gives the system the ability to increase wheel torque in exchange for speed, then engine torque would be very important, but we do have transmissions, and in the case of the hybrid a continuously variable transmission.

So how quickly you can climb a hill is purely a matter of horsepower, not peak torque, and this is particularly true on an eCVT that changes the game from the traditional automatics that we are used to, especially those familiar with old three, four, or five speed automatics where each gear is quite long. The eCVT gets a boost right off the line from the low RPM assist of the electric motor, and unlike a traditional automatic that has to slowly rev up in first gear and will take a while to reach peak horsepower, a eCVT can more quickly adjust down to quickly achieve and then hold peak horsepower RPM thanks to having more ratios than old automatics.

With the right transmission, you can rip a tree out of the ground with a 600cc motorcycle engine making 100hp at 16K rpm redline faster than you could a old 5000cc diesel that makes only 80hp at 3K rpm redline.

 

[SgtLip]

Nope, so horsepower IS literally a measure of torque, they aren't two alien things like people sometimes misunderstand.

Horsepower is just another way of saying ftlbs per minute, specifically a horsie is 33K ftlbs per minute.

Torque by itself is not work, so it doesn't really mean anything. We list peak torque only because it gives us a ballpark idea of the low to midrange power (even though torque itself is not a measure of power) without having to get specific about RPM. If an engine had no transmission, that gives the system the ability to increase wheel torque in exchange for speed, then engine torque would be very important, but we do have transmissions, and in the case of the hybrid a continuously variable transmission.

So how quickly you can climb a hill is purely a matter of horsepower, not peak torque, and this is particularly true on an eCVT that changes the game from the traditional automatics that we are used to, especially those familiar with old three, four, or five speed automatics where each gear is quite long. The eCVT gets a boost right off the line from the low RPM assist of the electric motor, and unlike a traditional automatic that has to slowly rev up in first gear and will take a while to reach peak horsepower, a eCVT can more quickly adjust down to quickly achieve and then hold peak horsepower RPM thanks to having more ratios than old automatics.

With the right transmission, you can rip a tree out of the ground with a 600cc motorcycle engine making 100hp at 16K rpm redline faster than you could a old 5000cc diesel that makes only 80hp at 3K rpm redline.

WOW. Thank you so much. This dumb auto guy who doesn't know much about how these things work (as proof with the dumb questions about tire sizes) understood this. I am impressed.

 

[nathanchrisman]

Thank you @JASmith for the good power/torque/transmission explanation. You beat me to it and did a good job.
The only thing I would add is the difference between peak and average power. Unfortunately I am unaware of any standard way to measure/rate “average power in the power band you will use between shift points”. This is where power graphs from a dyno are helpful. Both the hybrid and EB engine options are setup to give fairly flat power delivery, which is really what I like.
Oh, one more thing, the EB may be a better option for folks who live at high altitude. Turbo engines tend to handle thin air better than NA engines.

 

[elgin]

More important than power/torque is traction. Climbing a steep hill transfers weight off of the front drive wheels to the back wheels. This is even worse in a truck carrying a load. On dry pavement with a 10% grade this might not be a problem, but if the grade is dirt or gravel you might need to turn around and back up.

 

[fbov]

With the Hybrid having 155 of torque, ...

From the ICE, only. As other have noted. Here's the rest of the story. Where does the current come from?

At low speed, the ICE runs the charging motor to generate current for the traction motor, which does all the heavy lifting to about 40 mph. At least that's what my HF45 Escape does. Mine is rated for 172 lb. ft. torque (Maverick has more), and it runs in 1st gear to redline, so you get a 3+x multiplication ahead of my differential's 2.91x multiplication. No shortage of torque at low speed.

horsepower IS literally a measure of torque

HP = torque x RPM One is power, the other force.

When I accelerate, force is what matters. When I try for top speed, power will matter.

I will never do these two things at the same time. Each has its place.

 

[JASmith]

When I accelerate, force is what matters. When I try for top speed, power will matter.

Remember, force at the wheels is what matters, and time is everything.

Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity with respect to time, which takes work. Power deals with how fast work can be done. After all, that's why we care how much time it takes to go say 0-60mph when we talk about acceleration.

Provided you have a continuously variable transmission, and we do with the hybrid, peak acceleration for any given speed will always be at peak horsepower, because its at peak horsepower that you have peak torque at the wheel due to torque multiplication, and that peak horsepower is measuring the fastest the engine can do work.

Don't worry, this confuses the heck out of most people. Here's a bunch of math and number crunching to prove it, but if you just want to skip to the end as he says, "Maximum acceleration at any speed happens when the engine is delivering maximum horsepower, if anyone tells you this occurs at peak engine torque they are BSing you."

 

[mav_can]

The Maverick was certified with SAE J2807, aka Davis Dam, which is the same certification that Super Duties and all pickup trucks go through in the US. The test involves way more than a 10% grade, for a long time, in the heat, with the A/C on blast, and towing some amount. 10% should theoretically be a piece of cake if you’re not towing anything, and doable even if you are..



EDIT: Apparently Davis Dam only goes up to a max 7% grade and might be slower than what you're expecting, check the response to this comment on the next page.

 

[fbov]

Remember,...

Please consult an actual authority, like Sears & Zemansky. F=ma all day, every day.

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