Top Tier vs Ethanol free gas?

[Texchappy]

I’ve had very gas sensitive cars a lot, such as my current supercharged MINI Cooper. I’ve made it a practice to always use top-tier fuel in the appropriate octane grade. In one thread here, (don’t ask me which one), there was a discussion about using ethanol free in the 2.5L hybrid motor. There is one local service station that has ethanol free gas (in regular 87 grade).

Here’s the question: which would be better for the motor long term, ethanol free or top tier with it’s superior add-pack?

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[bgillen35]

This and oil threads are like opening a can of worms...

There's cars out there with 200k+ miles that have run on who knows what gas. There's cars out there with blown engines at 20K. There's cars out there that have less than 50K miles that have only seen ethanol free before they've been sold.

Point being, no matter what you put in your car, it's either going to outlast you or have a mechanical fault unrelated to the grade gas you put in there. So why not save your money and just run the recommended fuel and not worry about making sure you pass off a good vehicle to the next buyer or scrap yard.

 

[Bushpilot]

Ethanol free adds no value for a new vehicle.

 

[olderbudwiser]

Ethanol free adds no value for a new vehicle.

Except fuel economy

 

[FirstFord]

You're talking about two different things I think.

Ethanol free had higher specific energy which means better gas mileage. Not just theoretical. I've experienced it.
The other disadvantage of ethanol in fuel is that it can be gummy if it gets old. This is a problem for lawnmowers and motorcycles that can sit a lot. I'm not convinced it matters in a vehicle that's used consistently.

Top tier gas Is about the detergents included. These can help keep a fuel system clean and prevent injector clogging.

If you want to go belt and suspenders, use ethanol free gas and add Techron detergent additive every third or fourth fill!

We don't know how sensitive the Nac engines are, but there's no downside other than cost and convenience.

 

[Texchappy]

You're talking about two different things I think.

Ethanol free had higher specific energy which means better gas mileage. Not just theoretical. I've experienced it.
The other disadvantage of ethanol in fuel is that it can be gummy if it gets old. This is a problem for lawnmowers and motorcycles that can sit a lot. I'm not convinced it matters in a vehicle that's used consistently.

Top tier gas Is about the detergents included. These can help keep a fuel system clean and prevent injector clogging.

If you want to go belt and suspenders, use ethanol free gas and add Techron detergent additive every third or fourth fill!

We don't know how sensitive the Nac engines are, but there's no downside other than cost and convenience.

They are sep things but represent a choice in my neck of the woods. I can do one or the other. I already use Techron regularly but the fact that ethanol can make old fuel gummy might really be an advantage For our situation. We don’t drive very often as it is and getting more than 40mpg might mean gas will be in the tank for quite a while.

 

[Texchappy]

This and oil threads are like opening a can of worms...

There's cars out there with 200k+ miles that have run on who knows what gas. There's cars out there with blown engines at 20K. There's cars out there that have less than 50K miles that have only seen ethanol free before they've been sold.

Point being, no matter what you put in your car, it's either going to outlast you or have a mechanical fault unrelated to the grade gas you put in there. So why not save your money and just run the recommended fuel and not worry about making sure you pass off a good vehicle to the next buyer or scrap yard.

Yes, some cars go to the scrap yard well maintained and some poorly treated vehicles last forever. However, to say there’s no causation between upkeep and longevity just doesn’t make sense. If a simple choice of fuel can (maybe) help extend the life of the vehicle, why not do it?

 

[Bushpilot]

Except fuel economy

You are correct, I overstated my point.

 

[bgillen35]

Except fuel economy

For the average person, a change to your driving style will matter much more than ethanol vs ethanol free

Yes, some cars go to the scrap yard well maintained and some poorly treated vehicles last forever. However, to say there’s no causation between upkeep and longevity just doesn’t make sense. If a simple choice of fuel can (maybe) help extend the life of the vehicle, why not do it?

Well you're right, why not? No harm in doing so. But in my experience, no matter how long myself, my family members, or anyone I know say that have intended to keep a vehicle, it has either broken down for a non-engine related reason, been in an accident, or they/I decided to sell it for whatever reason. So why end up spending thousands of extra dollars over the life of the vehicle putting in premium gas, doing oil changes at 3k miles vs the recommended 10k., etc. when realistically you are not going to see the benefit of it?

 

[JASmith]

Pro-tip: All the fuel in your area is likely coming from the same refinery. Its all literally the same fuel. What is the difference between a mom and pop shop and a "top tier" fuel? Detergent packages? OK, that doesn't really affect the quality of the fuel, and all the basic detergents are more or less government mandated so very little difference. What you're paying for is simply the reputation of the gas station itself that the tanks are well maintained and you're not going to have contaminants in it like water or rust. So its all the same gas no matter where you go, but how its stored and pumped into your vehicle is where the magic happens that separates the good guys from the chumps.

Regarding ethanol vs ethanol free, I'd just buy whatever is cheapest unless you're storing fuel like in a generator for longer periods, where ethanol free with a fuel stabilizer purchased in highest available octane if your best bet (octane degrades with time).

 

[bgillen35]

So its all the same gas no matter where you go, but how its stored and pumped into your vehicle is where the magic happens that separates the good guys from the chumps.

100%. I manage a company that fuels private and commercial aircraft for a living. We order fuel from our supplier that gets delivered and stored to a consortium at the airport. United orders their fuel from their supplier that gets delivered and stored at the the same consortium. Same with Delta, American, Spirit, Frontier, Joe Shmoe Airlines. Doesn't matter who, doesn't matter the supplier, doesn't matter whether it's "green" fuel, special blends, whatever. It all goes into the same tanks before it is pumped into the hydrant system or mobile tankers to be pumped into the aircraft.

The same exact thing is happening to your vehicles with the addition of the detergent packs @JASmith mentioned which gets added to the fuel truck AFTER Exxon/Mobile, BP, Sunoco recieve a load from the same refinery.

 

[Bushpilot]

For the average person, a change to your driving style will matter much more than ethanol vs ethanol free


Well you're right, why not? No harm in doing so. But in my experience, no matter how long myself, my family members, or anyone I know say that have intended to keep a vehicle, it has either broken down for a non-engine related reason, been in an accident, or they/I decided to sell it for whatever reason. So why end up spending thousands of extra dollars over the life of the vehicle putting in premium gas, doing oil changes at 3k miles vs the recommended 10k., etc. when realistically you are not going to see the benefit of it?

Matches my experience., the engine outlasts the vehicle, with just basic engine care. I eventually get tired of fixing everything else, other than the core of the engine, and the vehicle gets sold or scrapped.

 

[olderbudwiser]

You are correct, I overstated my point.

Its cool not everyone knows ethanol effects fuel economy negatively.

 

[fbov]

I'd just buy whatever is cheapest ...

Ironically, I usually buy what's most expensive. Ethanol-free fuel isn't an economic benefit, it goes farther... but only in a vehicle driven for good mileage in the first place. Lead-foot drivers should buy whatever's cheapest.

 

[olderbudwiser]

For the average person, a change to your driving style will matter much more than ethanol vs ethanol free


Well you're right, why not? No harm in doing so. But in my experience, no matter how long myself, my family members, or anyone I know say that have intended to keep a vehicle, it has either broken down for a non-engine related reason, been in an accident, or they/I decided to sell it for whatever reason. So why end up spending thousands of extra dollars over the life of the vehicle putting in premium gas, doing oil changes at 3k miles vs the recommended 10k., etc. when realistically you are not going to see the benefit of it?

If I use non ethanol fuel my fuel economy goes up about 10%. Problem is not many stations carry non ethanol and the price difference is ugly. If not for Govt subsidey ethanol gas would be considerably higher.

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