Ford Isn’t So Bad

[Red Ryder]

You, and all the others who hijack every positive thread with the same spew of negativity time and time again ad nauseum.
Yes everyone knows your issue, you've made it very clear in many other threads, leave the OP the opportunity for a happy conversation for once.

No hijack, rather a counterpoint. Please post positive counterpoints in any thread you consider negative. It helps create balance.

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[Mag Maverick]

All you people who are defending Ford about the Broncos, Maverick and lightning I'm sure as hell happy that you weren't around in the mid-1700s or we'd be drinking hot tea and eating crumpets with your attitude. Or at the Alamo down in Texas. Or at San Juan Hill with Teddy Roosevelt or Doolittle's Raiders that bomb Tokyo or at the Battle of Midway Ford is a multibillion-dollar company so don't make excuses for them if they can't build the Bronco the Maverick or the lightning then don't put them up for sale and don't forget we arev the best country in the world and we can do anything that we put her minds to. Too bad Ford did not have the same mindset I'm sorry facts are facts and a defeatist attitude will get us nowhere I'm just happy we're not drinking hot tea and eating crumpets or speak in German or Japanese Ford may have some great ideas but if you can't get the product to the people it ain't worth shit. This country wasn't built on I think I can no this country was built on can do ,get at done ,you can do it . Like I said if you can't put the product out there don't put it up for sale. And don't tell me that Ford didn't know that if you were put a small hybrid pickup out there for under $20,000 with all the equipment has that it would be a success if they didn't know that then they got alot more problems then we're talkin about.

 

[mrbill]

All you people who are defending Ford about the Broncos, Maverick and lightning I'm sure as hell happy that you weren't around in the mid-1700s or we'd be drinking hot tea and eating crumpets with your attitude. Or at the Alamo down in Texas. Or at San Juan Hill with Teddy Roosevelt or Doolittle's Raiders that bomb Tokyo or at the Battle of Midway Ford is a multibillion-dollar company so don't make excuses for them if they can't build the Bronco the Maverick or the lightning then don't put them up for sale and don't forget we arev the best country in the world and we can do anything that we put her minds to. Too bad Ford did not have the same mindset I'm sorry facts are facts and a defeatist attitude will get us nowhere I'm just happy we're not drinking hot tea and eating crumpets or speak in German or Japanese Ford may have some great ideas but if you can't get the product to the people it ain't worth shit. This country wasn't built on I think I can no this country was built on can do ,get at done ,you can do it . Like I said if you can't put the product out there don't put it up for sale. And don't tell me that Ford didn't know that if you were put a small hybrid pickup out there for under $20,000 with all the equipment has that it would be a success if they didn't know that then they got alot more problems then we're talkin about.

Boy I like that,I am 67 and agree, if they could not make all they have presold/ordered they should have stop orders way before they did, and let us know this is what we can build and when they knew they could not fulfill the orders, tell us, sorry you will be put to the fist of the list for the next year,if you want to keep your order, but NO, they don't communicate at all, we have to call them.

 

[Pickles]

Just wanted to post this to counter all the negative posts.
In my opinion Ford is doing a good job.
I’m grateful they are making the Maverick now that so many trucks have grown in size and price.

This is my first Ford, and it has left me with appreciation of the brand as a whole.

Appreciate this! Lol breath of fresh air. Did you get your truck already?

 

[davnau]

I agree, but if they would only communicate with the customer, it would make 100% difference.

Unfortunately, that communication has varied from customer to customer. I got the email confirmation from Ford in June, plus the FITS Hybrid-delay email in October. I have gotten two phone calls from my dealer sales person, one in January and one in February. These phone calls were never that Ford has cancelled my order. The January one was to offer a conversion to EB, offer for me to cancel and get the deposit back, or let it ride and see what happens. The February one was about the continued semiconductor shortages and that there was a chance my XL Hybrid Maverick will not get built for MY2022. I was happy to get the calls. I'm still letting it ride.

I think part of this communication problem is what I am going to call the "Amazon-effect". Many of us have gotten used to constant update availability of Amazon orders on our phones, with tracking. We've gotten kind-of spoiled. The thing that is different is that Amazon ALWAYS has the item in stock that you order or they don't let you order it. So, never a disappointment. Here, we are talking about a product that is NOT in stock, and has to be built from scratch. In a crazy parts-constrained, and in some cases, labor-constrained world, with a product that needs to be shipped by rail and then truck from Mexico, this is infinitely more complicated. It seems as fast as malls go out of business, Amazon knocks it down, maybe even gets the local city to knock it down, and throws up a new local warehouse, thus providing better customer service. Building a vehicle from scratch is just not the same thing. But a lot of us expect it to be.

I'm also getting old, and hit 70 this year. So yeah, I'm playing well into the back nine, to use a golf analogy, and thus time is limited. I get it, so like I said, we all have options. If this situation with Ford does not work for you, then do something else. It's all OK. If I could buy that brand-new Toyota or Honda compact FWD truck that will give me 42 MPG city, 33 MPG highway, and 37MPG combined, when gas is hitting $4 a gallon, for only $21, 590, less $500 with my Farm Bureau e-coupon, I would buy it.

But they don't offer that. So, I wait.

 

[mrbill]

Great said !! ford use to make and sell close to one million f-150 A YEAR. in 1977 the new small tbird they made over 400,000 in one year I bought one sept 1977. Silverado's were around 700 thousand a year and ram 1500 around 700 thousand. not any more!!

 

[Delzona]

Do you not understand that these products have been in development for probably somewhere between 5 and 10 years? Do you not agree that the economy, supply chain circumstances and demand for vehicles overall was vastly different 5 years ago when the framework for the Maverick rollout was probably developed in concept? By the time the pandemic and supply chain crisis reared their ugly heads the process was already locked an loaded, you can't just make major changes on the fly.

I remember there's video from Ford's development team members talking about the ideas behind the Maverick and in one them they stated Maverick was one of the fastest developments of a vehicle by Ford. In this entry on Wikipedia they list 2019 as the unval date.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Maverick_(2022)
So the idea of Maverick maybe more recent than 5 years, but I agree that once everything is put into motion it's very hard to make rapid changes as seen by how hard chip manufacturers are having to return to pre-pandemic production levels.

 

[SDMavguy]

I haven't received mine yet, about a month to go!
I really appreciate that Ford is not just building bigger and better, they actually are putting out a product that younger families can afford!
And even in this era of high inflation, their 2023 price increases aren't terrible!
And having to wait for it?
Oh well, that's life these days!

 

[Delzona]

There are arguments on both sides.

However, in looking at the bigger picture, including the production figures of the other Ford C2 platform vehicles sold in the US (Bronco Sport, Escape and Lincoln Corsair), I see that Ford is doing a pretty good job of managing the limited parts, including semiconductors used in the various electronic management modules on their vehicles. For example, production and sales numbers for Escape/Maverick Hybrids is almost exactly 50-50. Their Hybrid drivetrains share a lot of parts, so this is a legitimate comparison.

I don't think they could do any better in overall production, until the parts shortages ease up. The Hermosillo plant is currently running two shifts, and there is no reason to add a third without better parts availability. I'm sure Ford eventually will go to three shifts when that better availability happens. (Assuming orders hold up.) They also can't really use another plant, because all worldwide plants are utilized, which is what you want for efficiency.

Also, the Maverick and Bronco Sport are sold in Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil. To sell in the latter two without tariffs, you need to build in one of those three countries. Given Ford is winding down assembly operations in Brazil due to continued losses, and the Argentina operations are already committed, Mexico is it. (Of course, building in Mexico means no tariffs for the US and Canada, too. As a note, Ford is also winding down assembly operations in India, again due to continued losses. Australia assembly operations are long gone, by all manufacturers, including GM and Toyota.)

I've consistently estimated, from earlier postings here at the MTC, that US production and sales for MY 2022 for Mavericks will be about 75,000, split 30,000 Hybrids (40%) and 45,000 EB models (60%). When you add in Canada (about 7,000 total) and Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil (about 2,000 total), that adds up to 84,000 produced and sold in total for MY 2022 from that Hermosillo plant. (More Bronco Sports will likely be produced, as there are no Hybrid models of those to worry about,) Given that 30,000 Hybrid estimate and about 3,000 Ford dealers in the US, this all translates to, on average, about 10 Maverick Hybrids per dealer. Given that only about 10% of production is the base XL model, this means, again on average, that the average US dealer will see 1 Maverick XL Hybrid delivered to them for the whole model year. I am most interested in that number, because I have have had a bare bones XL Hybrid on order since 6/17/2021, with the trailer hitch as only option. (At only $100, that is a real bargain, BTW) My dealer is medium-sized located in suburban Akron, OH. So looking at this, it totally makes sense that my truck has not been scheduled, since it has already been noted that there is a bias toward California, Texas, and Florida for allocations, lots of fleet orders for base XL models, plus there are a few dealers like Long McArthur, Chapman, and Granger that are very much focused on the Maverick for MY2022. At least we do not have to share the scarce parts with the Ford Focus (also C2 platform) here, which for MY 2022 is only sold in Europe, Australia, plus a few other countries.

Now the other side to look at is orders. Only Ford knows what that order total is for MY 2022 Mavericks. I'm speculating, and it's total speculation, that Ford has taken 45-60,000 Hybrid orders, and somewhere around 45-50,000 orders for EB models. I think they will fulfill most all of the EB orders, while a lot of Hybrid orders will roll over to MY 2023. I might not get my order delivered this year, either. It's just taking a long time, given all the parts shortages and "market-basket" allocation rules. Those, Hybrid allocations also tend to be biased toward the higher trim levels, which makes sense, given when parts are constrained, you build the most highly optioned models and trim levels that will give Ford the best margins, and thus profits. (Lee Iacocca always said that if everyone had bought a base 1965 Mustang, Ford would have made very little money.)

Another anecdotal data point is that my son just took delivery 10 days ago of a 2022 Ford Escape plug-in Hybrid (PHEV). He waited 9 months to get that vehicle, and it was a MY 2021-ordered crossover that rolled over to MY 2002 for fulfillment. He ordered it from a significantly larger dealer than my Maverick dealer. He's got a real unicorn, as I estimate Ford has only built a few hundred of those PHEV versions in total, adding both MY 2021 and MY 2022 Hybrid Escapes of PHEV types together. But he did finally get it - I've driven it.

Things are just really, really tight, and my true eye opener was the realization that the average dealer will see just one XL Hybrid for MY 2022. Since my order was the first one my dealer took for any Maverick, I'm hoping the one XL is mine when the time comes.

Not mad at all this, once I took the time to calculate it all out. We'll just have to wait and see what the outcome is. That will not come until January, 2023, when Ford reports December, 2022 and year-end total results. I give it 50-50 that I get my XL Hybrid Maverick order fulfilled for MY 2022.

It is what it is and we all just have to deal with it. To those who already have their Mavericks, congratulations. For those still waiting, then it's a decision whether to wait, or go and buy something else. Not bad, it's just where the world is right now. We all have choices. I've decided to wait.

Very well stated and interesting, thanks for posting this

 

[Michaelkov]

There are arguments on both sides.

However, in looking at the bigger picture, including the production figures of the other Ford C2 platform vehicles sold in the US (Bronco Sport, Escape and Lincoln Corsair), I see that Ford is doing a pretty good job of managing the limited parts, including semiconductors used in the various electronic management modules on their vehicles. For example, production and sales numbers for Escape/Maverick Hybrids is almost exactly 50-50. Their Hybrid drivetrains share a lot of parts, so this is a legitimate comparison.

I don't think they could do any better in overall production, until the parts shortages ease up. The Hermosillo plant is currently running two shifts, and there is no reason to add a third without better parts availability. I'm sure Ford eventually will go to three shifts when that better availability happens. (Assuming orders hold up.) They also can't really use another plant, because all worldwide plants are utilized, which is what you want for efficiency.

Also, the Maverick and Bronco Sport are sold in Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil. To sell in the latter two without tariffs, you need to build in one of those three countries. Given Ford is winding down assembly operations in Brazil due to continued losses, and the Argentina operations are already committed, Mexico is it. (Of course, building in Mexico means no tariffs for the US and Canada, too. As a note, Ford is also winding down assembly operations in India, again due to continued losses. Australia assembly operations are long gone, by all manufacturers, including GM and Toyota.)

I've consistently estimated, from earlier postings here at the MTC, that US production and sales for MY 2022 for Mavericks will be about 75,000, split 30,000 Hybrids (40%) and 45,000 EB models (60%). When you add in Canada (about 7,000 total) and Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil (about 2,000 total), that adds up to 84,000 produced and sold in total for MY 2022 from that Hermosillo plant. (More Bronco Sports will likely be produced, as there are no Hybrid models of those to worry about,) Given that 30,000 Hybrid estimate and about 3,000 Ford dealers in the US, this all translates to, on average, about 10 Maverick Hybrids per dealer. Given that only about 10% of production is the base XL model, this means, again on average, that the average US dealer will see 1 Maverick XL Hybrid delivered to them for the whole model year. I am most interested in that number, because I have have had a bare bones XL Hybrid on order since 6/17/2021, with the trailer hitch as only option. (At only $100, that is a real bargain, BTW) My dealer is medium-sized located in suburban Akron, OH. So looking at this, it totally makes sense that my truck has not been scheduled, since it has already been noted that there is a bias toward California, Texas, and Florida for allocations, lots of fleet orders for base XL models, plus there are a few dealers like Long McArthur, Chapman, and Granger that are very much focused on the Maverick for MY2022. At least we do not have to share the scarce parts with the Ford Focus (also C2 platform) here, which for MY 2022 is only sold in Europe, Australia, plus a few other countries.

Now the other side to look at is orders. Only Ford knows what that order total is for MY 2022 Mavericks. I'm speculating, and it's total speculation, that Ford has taken 45-60,000 Hybrid orders, and somewhere around 45-50,000 orders for EB models. I think they will fulfill most all of the EB orders, while a lot of Hybrid orders will roll over to MY 2023. I might not get my order delivered this year, either. It's just taking a long time, given all the parts shortages and "market-basket" allocation rules. Those, Hybrid allocations also tend to be biased toward the higher trim levels, which makes sense, given when parts are constrained, you build the most highly optioned models and trim levels that will give Ford the best margins, and thus profits. (Lee Iacocca always said that if everyone had bought a base 1965 Mustang, Ford would have made very little money.)

Another anecdotal data point is that my son just took delivery 10 days ago of a 2022 Ford Escape plug-in Hybrid (PHEV). He waited 9 months to get that vehicle, and it was a MY 2021-ordered crossover that rolled over to MY 2002 for fulfillment. He ordered it from a significantly larger dealer than my Maverick dealer. He's got a real unicorn, as I estimate Ford has only built a few hundred of those PHEV versions in total, adding both MY 2021 and MY 2022 Hybrid Escapes of PHEV types together. But he did finally get it - I've driven it.

Things are just really, really tight, and my true eye opener was the realization that the average dealer will see just one XL Hybrid for MY 2022. Since my order was the first one my dealer took for any Maverick, I'm hoping the one XL is mine when the time comes.

Not mad at all this, once I took the time to calculate it all out. We'll just have to wait and see what the outcome is. That will not come until January, 2023, when Ford reports December, 2022 and year-end total results. I give it 50-50 that I get my XL Hybrid Maverick order fulfilled for MY 2022.

It is what it is and we all just have to deal with it. To those who already have their Mavericks, congratulations. For those still waiting, then it's a decision whether to wait, or go and buy something else. Not bad, it's just where the world is right now. We all have choices. I've decided to wait.

 

[The-Beast]

Things occurred that a psychic wouldn't see coming much less some focus group flunky doing surveys.

Bullshit. A 20k truck launching when everything else has ballooned to 30-50k. Particularly one that would offer the same ride quality as an SUV. Then you have the additional high mpg hybrid. This was always going to be a hot vehicle because it hits so many market segments.

 

[vabchusa]

Ford (and all the other manufacturers') order parts on the JITI (just in time inventory and when the world went haywire parts did not get ordered . No one saw how bad the supply chain was to be disrupted due to labor and shipping.

 

[davnau]

Bullshit. A 20k truck launching when everything else has ballooned to 30-50k. Particularly one that would offer the same ride quality as an SUV. Then you have the additional high mpg hybrid. This was always going to be a hot vehicle because it hits so many market segments.

You build what you can with the parts you can get. Even with the parts shortages, the Hermosillo plant is running Mavericks and Bronco Sports over two shifts. Ford would run three shifts if they could get the parts. Dealer could then stock a few each and orders would be fulfilled more quickly.

It is what it is, for now. Over time, things always change. There will also likely be more competition than the Santa Cruz, over time. We'll just have to see what shakes out.

 

[davnau]

Yeah, I can get wordy.

But then it would just be a beef with no backup.

At least it is 72 degrees and the sun is out in NE Ohio today. The Mustang will come out of winter storage, soon!

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