ICE is the future - for Hybrids

[Chops]

It appears Ford will stick with their current Atkinson ICE with the 2028 redesign?

Toyota is drastically updating their hybrid Atkinson - away from the one your grandpas drove for 400,000 miles as NYC taxi drivers back at turn of the century.

Ford focusing on small ICE to serve as non-wheel driving “range extenders” for EV’s.

Ford Hybrids will probably follow the path of the Ford compact & midsize cars - let Toyota have that market?

That said - Scotty Kilmer recently gushed over the current F-150 Hybrid. V6 Twin Turbo connected direct to electric motor connected direct to 10 speed automatic transmission. 28mpg for a Big 4WD Truck. 420+HP. That might sell!

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[Grabber Rick]

Way back in 1976 that years Honda Civic/CVCC got 54 mpg on the highway and
44 in city traffic with the A/C on.
It had a carburetor,
A five speed stick,
A/C
And hauled ass if you knew how to , ‘stir’ the gear box.

We have not really moved forward. Just sideways.
Got real good at bullshitting the American consumer.

I had a 1994 Ford Escort wagon with a 5 speed 1.9 engine. I was getting 40-42 mpg on the highway. Bought it with 5,000 miles on the speedo. (105,000) only read to 99,999 on the gauge. I turned it over to 0 again. It finally rotted out with 71,000 on the odometer. 271,000 mile and was still running but Pa. winters destroyed the subframe. Paid $1000 for that car. My current 07 Ford Focus wagon 5 speed 2.0 has 305,000 miles still gets 31 mpg highway. Bought it with 102,000 miles on it. Had my front subframe repaired. Have to do the drivers rocker next and should pass inspection for another year. Paid $5500 for this one. One owner vehicle. Dealer was asking $7400 I got him down by saying I am leaving to look at another Focus.

 

[Ryom]

I want to point out that the the majority of older vehicles getting 30, 40, 50+ MPG were also generally tiny econoboxes that had a 0 to 60 time of sometime before your kids graduate. The Hybrid Mav will haul an entire dorm room of cargo and will get to 60MPH in 6.7 seconds. The older vehicles also didn't hold up in nasty crashes, we have proof that the Maverick does.

Don't let the rose-colored glasses cloud your vision too much

 

[Art Vandelay]

I want to point out that the the majority of older vehicles getting 30, 40, 50+ MPG were also generally tiny econoboxes that had a 0 to 60 time of sometime before your kids graduate. The Hybrid Mav will haul an entire dorm room of cargo and will get to 60MPH in 6.7 seconds. The older vehicles also didn't hold up in nasty crashes, we have proof that the Maverick does.

Don't let the rose-colored glasses cloud your vision too much

"0 to 60 time of sometime before your kids graduate." This made me LOL!
It reminded me of my first car when I was in high school. It was a 1986 Chevy Sprint with a 3 cyl Suzuki engine that had a whopping 48HP. Yes, 48 HP! Imagine that today. You could argue that the car was light but it was still only 48 HP. And let me tell you, it was so slow that it was sometimes dangerous to merge onto the highway unless you had a really long on ramp to gather speed.

But damn it was good on gas, and I always far exceeded the EPA's MPG rating. 50 mpg was pretty much the low end for that car. No AC, no power windows or locks, it didn't even have power steering. Luckily it was a 5 speed manual transmission so I was able to at least stretch the most out of the engine. That engine was also bulletproof, as a teenager who beat the hell out of that car I would know.

 

[inline_five]

It appears Ford will stick with their current Atkinson ICE with the 2028 redesign?

Toyota is drastically updating their hybrid Atkinson - away from the one your grandpas drove for 400,000 miles as NYC taxi drivers back at turn of the century.

Ford focusing on small ICE to serve as non-wheel driving “range extenders” for EV’s.

Ford Hybrids will probably follow the path of the Ford compact & midsize cars - let Toyota have that market?

That said - Scotty Kilmer recently gushed over the current F-150 Hybrid. V6 Twin Turbo connected direct to electric motor connected direct to 10 speed automatic transmission. 28mpg for a Big 4WD Truck. 420+HP. That might sell!

Honestly an F150 getting 28 mpg and then being able to tow 10,000+ lbs is a pretty useful vehicle considering 15 years ago it got like 14 mpg while not towing lol.

Pretty impressive improvements especially considering how much bigger it is, how much more capable it is, and how much safer it is.

 

[Chops]

Honestly an F150 getting 28 mpg and then being able to tow 10,000+ lbs is a pretty useful vehicle considering 15 years ago it got like 14 mpg while not towing lol.

Pretty impressive improvements especially considering how much bigger it is, how much more capable it is, and how much safer it is.

The F-150 is THE Ford Flagship. The best & brightest are assigned to it.

If the F-150 Hybrid fit my garage and my budget - it would be tempting

438HP getting 28mpg with 4WD wow! My EB is 250HP getting 20mpg with “AWD”.

The F-150 is only 10% of F-150 sales while the Maverick Hybrid is 60% of Maverick sales - but the F-150 Hybrid has overtaken the the Maverick Hybrid sales in units sold (85,000 vs 80,000). The F-150 has higher margins I’m guessing?

I really like the twin turbo V6 connected direct to an electric motor connected to a geared 10 speed transmission.

Luckily I really like my house/garage and my Maverick even more

 

[inline_five]

The F-150 is THE Ford Flagship. The best & brightest are assigned to it.

If the F-150 Hybrid fit my garage and my budget - it would be tempting

438HP getting 28mpg with 4WD wow! My EB is 250HP getting 20mpg with “AWD”.

The F-150 is only 10% of F-150 sales while the Maverick Hybrid is 60% of Maverick sales - but the F-150 Hybrid has overtaken the the Maverick Hybrid sales in units sold (85,000 vs 80,000). The F-150 has higher margins I’m guessing?

I really like the twin turbo V6 connected direct to an electric motor connected to a geared 10 speed transmission.

Luckily I really like my house/garage and my Maverick even more

TBF if you drove the Maverick like you did an F150 hybrid to get 28 mpg out of it, you'd probably be getting 34 mpg.

But yeah, the difference isn't really that much. Pretty crazy. That being said I hate complexity and a twin turbo system just makes my skin crawl. I like the Maverick package and powertrain personally, but I'm not towing 10k lbs.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Don't let the rose-colored glasses cloud your vision too much

I want to point out 0-60 in 6 seconds is a want. Not a need.

Don't let high acceleration give you tunnel vision. It happens.

 

[Ryom]

I want to point out 0-60 in 6 seconds is a want. Not a need.

Don't let high acceleration give you tunnel vision. It happens.

Firm disagree.

Being unable to stop, steer, and accelerate reasonably are all safety issues for compact passenger vehicles. Just like not having crumple zones and a suite of airbags is a safety issue. We're past needing to have underpowered, anemic engines to get good mileage or building behemoth steel cans for surviving impacts.

 

[Tbone289]

I want to point out that the the majority of older vehicles getting 30, 40, 50+ MPG were also generally tiny econoboxes that had a 0 to 60 time of sometime before your kids graduate. The Hybrid Mav will haul an entire dorm room of cargo and will get to 60MPH in 6.7 seconds. The older vehicles also didn't hold up in nasty crashes, we have proof that the Maverick does.

Don't let the rose-colored glasses cloud your vision too much

I'm not sure what you mean by "older", but a 2012-2018 Focus hatchback does 0-60 in 7.3 seconds and handles and brakes considerably better than a Maverick. It will only haul 1/2 a dorm room with the back seats down, but gets 38MPG @70MPH and has very good crash ratings.

But I assume you mean older than that, prior to boron steel-reinforced chassis for the crash ratings...

 

[Scott Asheville]

I sometimes wonder if EREVs are the best of both worlds, or the worst of both worlds, or both at the same time. People mostly haven't noticed, but Nissan is bringing their E-Power EREV (aka series hybrid) to the US any day now.

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/future-concept/2027-rogue-hybrid.html

 

[Ryom]

I'm not sure what you mean by "older", but a 2012-2018 Focus hatchback does 0-60 in 7.3 seconds and handles and brakes considerably better than a Maverick. It will only haul 1/2 a dorm room with the back seats down, but gets 38MPG @70MPH and has very good crash ratings.

But I assume you mean older than that, prior to boron steel-reinforced chassis for the crash ratings...

The discussion referenced was centered around Geo Metros and the like. 80s and 90s era vehicles. Great economy but dog slow and death traps in severe accidents.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

The discussion referenced was centered around Geo Metros and the like. 80s and 90s era vehicles. Great economy but dog slow and death traps in severe accidents.

Only because of the over-weight over-sized over-powered behemoths taking kids to soccer while the distracted driver updates Tik-Tok.

Need to loose your tunnel vision and see the wider aspect.

 

[Ryom]

Only because of the over-weight over-sized over-powered behemoths taking kids to soccer while the distracted driver updates Tik-Tok.

Need to loose your tunnel vision and see the wider aspect.

Been EMS for 15 years and have seen the results of old and new vehicles in MVAs. I have no tunnel vision about the difference between now and then. We are much better off now with modern safety systems and good power to weight ratios. Agree to disagree.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

No debate about what you are seeing.
Just a debate of the cause of what you are seeing.

Size of vehicle is not a cause.

Mis-matched sizes is a cause.

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