What IF the Hybrid Maverick had a larger battery?!

[icegradner]

I'm not a hybrid or ev person, just not my thing. Anyways, I would assume a larger battery to make any significant difference would (1) make the truck cost more (2) take up more space that's already fairly tight (3) make the truck heavier which might actually decrease the mpg numbers. Maybe if the solid state batteries they seem to be talking about for the future would be a better solution. I got no idea, just kicking tires and throwing some thing out there.

Yes the power to weight ratio is important. Adding another 1.1kw likely wouldn't make a huge difference, but it wouldn't add a lot of range, once factoring in the weight, the extra coolant required and such. You really need a much bigger batter, and more powerful electric motor for it to make sense.

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[Timothyd]

This is asked often.

The "free" gains to be had in the hybrid are from capturing energy during braking. Once you are at a stop, no more free energy. Free compared to the ecoboost.

If your battery is large enough to capture and convert all of the braking from top speed to zero, the battery is the perfect size. To "ready" the battery for the second braking event, you need to deplete the battery (at lest some, I strive for mostly depleted) on the second acceleration.

Think of the battery like a spring.
You compress it when braking, then let it expand to help you accelerate.

The only time you'd gain from larger battery is on long, miles long downhill drives, steep enough to need braking on the downhill. Think mountains, 5% and steeper slopes.

Hybrid battery kWH size has remained constant for 25 years for all practical purpose and for good reason: it's the perfect size.

Where I want to move to (the Ozarks) there's nothing but big hills and tight curves, lots of on/off throttle. "Perfect " is perfect for a particular set of parameters.

 

[TheQuixotic1]

I have driven my 23 Maverick Hybrid enough watching the EV coach to realize the hybrid battery recharges fairly quickly, so what IF the Hybrid Maverick had a larger EV battery larger than 1.1 Kwh. Would it go further in EV mode and get even better mileage? I do not know the EV battery charger specs but could it handle a 2 or 3 Kwh battery. My guess is yes. The 23 Escape PHEV has a 14.4 Kwh battery for 35 miles EV.

While 1.1kWh has been the "hybrid standard" for Ford, the hybrid F-150 Power Boost is a 1.6kWh pack. I would have loved to have seen the Maverick adopt the 1.6kWh as its standard so it could also include the 2kW Pro Power Onboard feature.

 

[The Real Maverick]

While 1.1kWh has been the "hybrid standard" for Ford, the hybrid F-150 Power Boost is a 1.6kWh pack. I would have loved to have seen the Maverick adopt the 1.6kWh as its standard so it could also include the 2kW Pro Power Onboard feature.

A) The Maverick only uses 0.44 kWh.
The usable range is 30% to 70%.

B) A 1.6kWh battery would not change enough for you to notice. To make sure that the battery lasts 15 years, you'd still be constrained to 30% to 70% of it. 0.64 kWh

 

[dochawk]

I'll add in that, aside from the extra weight, being able to hold the charge to go twice as long on electric generally means running twice as long on gas to get there (the long downhill on a regular basis being a clear exception.

I don't see a lot of gain by holding more than enough to be able to accelerate back to speed once, with a reserve to use the electric for extra horsies if needed, on the one hand, and enough to have useful plugin range, on the other.

 

[TheQuixotic1]

A) The Maverick only uses 0.44 kWh.
The usable range is 30% to 70%.

B) A 1.6kWh battery would not change enough for you to notice. To make sure that the battery lasts 15 years, you'd still be constrained to 30% to 70% of it. 0.64 kWh

I'm not saying that it would be a massively noticeable difference in performance/efficiency (likely sub 10% for city mpg rating), but increasing the usable space almost 50% from .44 to .64 would still yield a good improvement at the cost of minimal weight gain (an extra ~.5kWh total in the pack would roughly equate to 10lbs of additional battery material). The .2kWh increase of usable overhead would only translates to roughly an additional half mile of electric range in practical conditions, but that increase in a city/suburban setting could add potentially ~4 mpg more to the overall city calculation and maybe ~1 mpg to the highway calculation.

Combine that gain whilst also enabling the Pro Power Onboard architecture which would be an awesome feature for the Maverick to have. I understand the PPO feature would likely be a small demographic initially, but it is something that could become extremely popular once more people know about it. The 2kW PPO baseline enables boondock camping and some jobsite applications and would likely be a good money-maker when it comes to fleet sales. The 7.2kW PPO becomes a great backup home generator in the event of an emergency.

I'll add in that, aside from the extra weight, being able to hold the charge to go twice as long on electric generally means running twice as long on gas to get there (the long downhill on a regular basis being a clear exception.

I don't see a lot of gain by holding more than enough to be able to accelerate back to speed once, with a reserve to use the electric for extra horsies if needed, on the one hand, and enough to have useful plugin range, on the other.

The idea of running twice as long on gas to realize the benefit on the increased electric side definitely isn't accurate. I drove a Ford C-Max hybrid for 150,000 miles and was never a hyper-mile aficionado like many are, but coasting and light braking regained/generated so much electricity my 1.1kWh battery was typically fully charged halfway before being fully stopped. At one point I regularly drove a rural highway stretch where there were 3 stop signs roughly 2 miles apart each; with a depleted battery and coasting/light braking from 60mph my battery would read full before coming to a stop each time.

I agree with you that there is definitely a point where it no longer is efficient/beneficial to increase the size of the battery, but I would estimate it to be north of 2kWh for a non PHEV hybrid drivetrain. So long as the electric drivetrain has enough power to sustain highway speeds for stretches of time/distance, more is definitely better and will yield improved results.

I think Ford has maintained the previous 1.1kWh architecture because it likely saved them considerable money on additional R&D and actively saves them a small additional overhead on production.

 

[Timothyd]

I have driven my 23 Maverick Hybrid enough watching the EV coach to realize the hybrid battery recharges fairly quickly, so what IF the Hybrid Maverick had a larger EV battery larger than 1.1 Kwh. Would it go further in EV mode and get even better mileage? I do not know the EV battery charger specs but could it handle a 2 or 3 Kwh battery. My guess is yes. The 23 Escape PHEV has a 14.4 Kwh battery for 35 miles EV.

I like that thinking. And, I wish there was a dash gauge to let us know the real time battery charge and depleation rate.

 

[The Real Maverick]

I'm not saying that it would be a massively noticeable difference in performance/efficiency (likely sub 10% for city mpg rating), but increasing the usable space almost 50% from .44 to .64 would still yield a good improvement at the cost of minimal weight gain (an extra ~.5kWh total in the pack would roughly equate to 10lbs of additional battery material). The .2kWh increase of usable overhead would only translates to roughly an additional half mile of electric range in practical conditions, but that increase in a city/suburban setting could add potentially ~4 mpg more to the overall city calculation and maybe ~1 mpg to the highway calculation.

Combine that gain whilst also enabling the Pro Power Onboard architecture which would be an awesome feature for the Maverick to have. I understand the PPO feature would likely be a small demographic initially, but it is something that could become extremely popular once more people know about it. The 2kW PPO baseline enables boondock camping and some jobsite applications and would likely be a good money-maker when it comes to fleet sales. The 7.2kW PPO becomes a great backup home generator in the event of an emergency.



The idea of running twice as long on gas to realize the benefit on the increased electric side definitely isn't accurate. I drove a Ford C-Max hybrid for 150,000 miles and was never a hyper-mile aficionado like many are, but coasting and light braking regained/generated so much electricity my 1.1kWh battery was typically fully charged halfway before being fully stopped. At one point I regularly drove a rural highway stretch where there were 3 stop signs roughly 2 miles apart each; with a depleted battery and coasting/light braking from 60mph my battery would read full before coming to a stop each time.

I agree with you that there is definitely a point where it no longer is efficient/beneficial to increase the size of the battery, but I would estimate it to be north of 2kWh for a non PHEV hybrid drivetrain. So long as the electric drivetrain has enough power to sustain highway speeds for stretches of time/distance, more is definitely better and will yield improved results.

I think Ford has maintained the previous 1.1kWh architecture because it likely saved them considerable money on additional R&D and actively saves them a small additional overhead on production.

The Ford Escape Hybrid originally had a 1.6 kWh battery. They intentionally downsized it. While at the same time increased EV range by 2x and MPG by 1.2x.

 

[TheQuixotic1]

The Ford Escape Hybrid originally had a 1.6 kWh battery. They intentionally downsized it. While at the same time increased EV range by 2x and MPG by 1.2x.

Are you taking about the "original" 2005 Escape hybrid? Because that was a 1.8kWh NiMH battery made by Sanyo using 330v architecture at 5.5Ah of storage. It was paired with the 2.3L I4 running the Atkinson cycle and the ICE only produced 133hp. They downsized the battery for a number of reasons, I'm sure, just like they no longer use NiMH for batteries either. Things are supposed to improve over time, but that doesn't inherently have to mean everything must be downsized to match.

 

[HeyBales]

Most of my city driving - I wouldn't mind if they allowed elec up to 15-20% on power meter.

So many of my take-offs feels more like an engine auto-off/on system without the lag time on takeoff. Almost immediately the engine is on for what amounts to be that 15-20% power to keep up with traffic.
I know it would just drain faster and kick engine on sooner anyway.
Always wondered if slightly bigger battery would help with that.
Considering the braking recharge doesn't go above 70% anyway, my driving rarely has engine kicking on just for recharge.

 

[tom_tucker]

Seems pointless to me. The only time it really fills up is in the Appalachians. The battery can take on a pretty big downhill as-is.

Plus, I'm a moderate, not a liberal. I refuse anything more the 1.1kw, hehe.

 

[Timothyd]

I have driven my 23 Maverick Hybrid enough watching the EV coach to realize the hybrid battery recharges fairly quickly, so what IF the Hybrid Maverick had a larger EV battery larger than 1.1 Kwh. Would it go further in EV mode and get even better mileage? I do not know the EV battery charger specs but could it handle a 2 or 3 Kwh battery. My guess is yes. The 23 Escape PHEV has a 14.4 Kwh battery for 35 miles EV.

Where do you see the level of charge for the HV battery?

 

[icegradner]

Where do you see the level of charge for the HV battery?

It's one of the display options on the infotainment unit, but only for Lariats with Sync3. XL and XLT are left in the dark, but honestly it's not important to see. I had a battery screen on my previous car, a Camry Hybrid, never used it after the first week of ownership.

 

[hdave]

I used the battery meter all the time in my CT200h.
Then I realized it is worse for fuel economy to drain the battery completely and have the ICE kick in.

Once I changed my driving style a bit, I no longer needed to pay attention to the battery meter and I also got better mileage.

 

[The Real Maverick]

Where do you see the level of charge for the HV battery?

You can add a display tool via the OBDII data port.

I use battery SOC constantly.
You don't know what you're missing.

I helps me boost MPG in the city to 53-56 MPG and helps with "power management" in hilly terrain.

It also has probably help me stop hundreds of not needed engine starts.

Plus it's just loads of fun knowing what is going on.

Sure, you can drive without a gas gauge too, but don't you like knowing how much fuel you have?

Your hybrid has two fuel tanks.

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