Running nonstandard oil?

[Jalopy Technology]

I still remember the detergent/non-detergent oil discussions back in the 60's.

I worked at an Enco station starting in '64 and we tried to get our customers to use our Enco Extra or Uniflo multigrade oils rather than the straight grade oils.

The boss also had a secret oil that we used in our shop for oil changes.

There was ( and still is) a custom oil blender in Milwaukee and they sold us a copy cat Uniflo motor oil that we pumped out of a 55 gal barrel. Same specs... same additive pkg.

About 15 years ago I attended an oil presentation put on by Lake Speed... great info and a stand up guy. I learned a lot...

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[Snox801]

Actually Lake says they don't rebuild those NASCAR engines each race anymore. He says they run them 4-5 races now between rebuilds. It is a whole new paradigm in racing.

GM is about to be challenged on their "fix". They are about to eat the cost of up to 700k new engines(some think it is more than that going back to 2019). I don't think anyone is going to lay down for "just put a 0w-40 oil in it" and call that a fix. That is why I said get some popcorn and pull up a seat. Things are about to get really interesting. They admitted defective, substandard parts were the cause of the recall and how they prove that is to pull the codes and if your vehicle doesn't show this code change the oil and call it good. We will see if that stands up in court. How many engines that weren't throwing the code ended up puking anyway? That is when the snowball will pick up speed.

I really like Lake and think his content provides some great insight, data, and clears up a lot of myths about lubrication, oils, fuels etc. In this case I think this video is trolling. He knows there are a lot of people who are very uncomfortable with these thinner and thinner oils and rightfully so. Until you look under the covers at the additive world and packages that make those oils possible. Then it gets really interesting.

Lake knows this and has been covering some of the amazing work that is going on and has been spending lots of time over at HPL and showing how these packages and API spec oils are put together. It is fascinating stuff. It looks to me like Lake was intending to stir the pot a little with this video which is why I am calling foul ball.

That’s fine is that what he was doing but those same additives works as well with thicker oil.


Inte

So let's just summarize all these viscosity threads to get some clarity.
GM messed up their engine design and bearing finishes, and have to run higher viscosity to try and hide the problem at the expense of engine efficiency. Therefore all engines are messed up in the same way and will need absolutely higher viscosity oil. After all, Lake Speed said so. A few people in super-hot Arizona are trying 5W30 in their Hybrids and 10W40 in their EcoBoosts because an engine that they used 20 years ago did that, and never mind that my engine does not start on hot oil on a freezing cold morning. Oh and don't forget that this is a very old engine design and it used to run on much thicker oil and that's what I'm going to do. I definitely won't use synthetic oil because only dinosaur sweat is real oil. The engineers at Ford don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and specified an incorrect oil weight in order to meet CAFE specs and I don't give a damn about, and I race every weekend with 50-weight castor oil crap so I'll just use it in my daily driver too. I'm selling it after 2 years of my mistreatment anyways. Oh, and I have an ancient gallon of API SG spec oil that should do the trick in my much higher requirement engine design than my 68 Camaro used.
Did I miss anything? The bull is getting pretty thick around here.

Interesting take. Neither myself or the other poster in any back and forth came close to saying that .

Maybe we should all just stop asking questions and debating anything. Sounds like the most productive way to learn anything. These can be used to learn if one is willing to take in all info and make a choice that they are comfortable with.

 

[HenryFord]

That’s fine is that what he was doing but those same additives works as well with thicker oil.

You are absolutely right. I think Lake likes to say something along the lines of "they may meet the spec, but within that group even C students pass and get the degree, there are a variety of students that have the API spec on their product and some a A students, some are B students, some are C students" Knowing the difference can matter a great deal.

I was looking up the oil that we used to put in our 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid. That car is still in the family and one of our kids still drives it. Long on the tooth and tons of miles. The factory spec on that oil is 5w-20. We always ran synthetics in it and have never really had major mechanical issues. That hybrid battery started limping a couple of years ago and the kids haven't gotten around to replacing it yet, but I think that will probably happen this year. Considering how new the hybrid tech was at the time it really is surprising how well it worked and has held up.

I think one of the reasons the motor oil discussion got frothy has been some of the engine tech that has been pushed that was half baked. The DI engines to this day are still dodgy as heck. Funny how we blamed the oil for poor design and implementation and now trying to work around those bad decisions. It is taking them far too long to address the problems DI and the hard push into turbo everything. Consumers have paid the price.

One of the reasons I ordered the hybrid is my past experience with the hybrids, it is naturally aspirated, and relatively proven engine tech that they haven't really messed around with. The hybrid drive system however appears to have evolved and I am hoping it is as reliable at our other hybrid vehicles. These have been low stress long lived engine that are pretty low demand on the oil. I think fuel dilution is probably the biggest enemy so keeping the fuel system clean is important.

If after I do my first couple of oil changes to purge the break in oil and stuff out of it the oil tests come back with wear metals above where I think they should be I will gladly move up the viscosity range and test again. I have no doubt the 2.5L will be fat and happy running a 5w-30! ROFL I will cross that bridge as the oil tests come back. I don't want to prematurely walk away from fuel economy and efficiency if I can get it without sacrificing the engine with excessive wear. I think Ford has done their homework on this so I will find out soon enough. Just waiting on that truck to get built.

 

[Snox801]

You are absolutely right. I think Lake likes to say something along the lines of "they may meet the spec, but within that group even C students pass and get the degree, there are a variety of students that have the API spec on their product and some a A students, some are B students, some are C students" Knowing the difference can matter a great deal.

I was looking up the oil that we used to put in our 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid. That car is still in the family and one of our kids still drives it. Long on the tooth and tons of miles. The factory spec on that oil is 5w-20. We always ran synthetics in it and have never really had major mechanical issues. That hybrid battery started limping a couple of years ago and the kids haven't gotten around to replacing it yet, but I think that will probably happen this year. Considering how new the hybrid tech was at the time it really is surprising how well it worked and has held up.

I think one of the reasons the motor oil discussion got frothy has been some of the engine tech that has been pushed that was half baked. The DI engines to this day are still dodgy as heck. Funny how we blamed the oil for poor design and implementation and now trying to work around those bad decisions. It is taking them far too long to address the problems DI and the hard push into turbo everything. Consumers have paid the price.

One of the reasons I ordered the hybrid is my past experience with the hybrids, it is naturally aspirated, and relatively proven engine tech that they haven't really messed around with. The hybrid drive system however appears to have evolved and I am hoping it is as reliable at our other hybrid vehicles. These have been low stress long lived engine that are pretty low demand on the oil. I think fuel dilution is probably the biggest enemy so keeping the fuel system clean is important.

If after I do my first couple of oil changes to purge the break in oil and stuff out of it the oil tests come back with wear metals above where I think they should be I will gladly move up the viscosity range and test again. I have no doubt the 2.5L will be fat and happy running a 5w-30! ROFL I will cross that bridge as the oil tests come back. I don't want to prematurely walk away from fuel economy and efficiency if I can get it without sacrificing the engine with excessive wear. I think Ford has done their homework on this so I will find out soon enough. Just waiting on that truck to get built.

Agreed. I have run 5w30 in a lot of my ecoboost engines. If oil dilution and wear metals come back good I keep it. Even if I’m pushing it hard. My last 3.5 boost ran it for 418k miles. And that was over 500whp since the first day I bought it.
My wife’s 2.0 boost has 250k and has run e30 the entire time tuned. Never had any issue.
but if the reports come back with fuel dilution or wear metals higher I am not scared to run heavier oil.

 

[Pete Roberts]

READ the OWNERS MANUAL

 

[Snox801]

READ the OWNERS MANUAL

Yep that checks out!
Man this guys must h e his head in the sand.
The whole point was of these threads is because the manual is not the best form of info. You mean the same manual that says 150k miles for trans fluid? Lifetime fluids on rdu?
That manual? That is literally all you came up with? No data? No personal experience? Just that. Man by your standards we would never need anything like oil reports, fluid changes, or 87 octane fuel.

 

[Phimosis]

The problem with the GM engine failures is with GM engineering, not with the oil. Toyota has the best engine reliability record and they have been running 0w-20 for 25 years.

 

[HenryFord]

The problem with the GM engine failures is with GM engineering, not with the oil. Toyota has the best engine reliability record and they have been running 0w-20 for 25 years.

At least he acknowledges in that video that GM's effort here isn't a fix and it certainly is questionable/laughable. The lawsuits are going to keep pouring in over this. GM admits in the 2025 trucks that they replaced the questionable parts and recommend the 0w-20 again. The wider the spread between the number in front of the W and the second number is widely understood to be done with VI packages which tend to sheer. I would certainly be running a used oil analysis to determine if I needed to change the oil on a shorter time/miles interval after making that change. Many if not most oils will sheer out of grade and that is when it is good to know the data.

I think people trying to use the GM move as an indication everyone should be running a heavier oil is highly questionable. Without the data it is all speculation. It isn't that hard to get the data.

Toyota now has vehicles running 0w-8. And per the oil analysis that I saw Lake share it looks like a very advanced additive package that is performing well. So the guy that is out telling you don't listen to the OEM's is posting videos showing his oil changes and oil analysis and he is putting oil in his vehicles that are the viscosity the manufacturer spec'd. Yes, he is still running 0w-8 in his daughters new Corolla. There are sermons you hear, and sermons you can see. For his daughters use case and how she uses the car the factory spec oil is working pretty well. And his choice is being backed by the tests and data to prove it is working.

 

[Snox801]

The problem with the GM engine failures is with GM engineering, not with the oil. Toyota has the best engine reliability record and they have been running 0w-20 for 25 years.

That was Toyota of old you clearly are not paying attention.
Heck even the gr Yaris and other “performance cars”are a joke now. They fail at incredible rates. Only one that doesn’t is the Supra because it’s bmw.
Is it oil. Probably not but let’s not keep repeating how they are the most reliable.

 

[Snox801]

At least he acknowledges in that video that GM's effort here isn't a fix and it certainly is questionable/laughable. The lawsuits are going to keep pouring in over this. GM admits in the 2025 trucks that they replaced the questionable parts and recommend the 0w-20 again. The wider the spread between the number in front of the W and the second number is widely understood to be done with VI packages which tend to sheer. I would certainly be running a used oil analysis to determine if I needed to change the oil on a shorter time/miles interval after making that change. Many if not most oils will sheer out of grade and that is when it is good to know the data.

I think people trying to use the GM move as an indication everyone should be running a heavier oil is highly questionable. Without the data it is all speculation. It isn't that hard to get the data.

Toyota now has vehicles running 0w-8. And per the oil analysis that I saw Lake share it looks like a very advanced additive package that is performing well. So the guy that is out telling you don't listen to the OEM's is posting videos showing his oil changes and oil analysis and he is putting oil in his vehicles that are the viscosity the manufacturer spec'd. Yes, he is still running 0w-8 in his daughters new Corolla. There are sermons you hear, and sermons you can see. For his daughters use case and how she uses the car the factory spec oil is working pretty well. And his choice is being backed by the tests and data to prove it is working.

This is correct. You have to collect data and then know why you want heavier oil. A lot of mine run 5w30 no issues. But if I’m gonna track it it gets what goes recommended at 5w50.
Like lake said it won’t hurt because all oil in cold weather is thicker than 50w when 50w is up to operating temps.
Analysis is the best way. Like several here get them back with viscosity out of spec. Which for them 40-50w would be better. Then mine come back in spec so no need. If one comes back on one of mine it gets a different oil.

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