Proposed federal yearly fee for Hybrids

[The Real Maverick]

Weight and mileage- check the odometer every year.

Except a lot of us never step foot in a physical DMV office. And we don't want to. It's all online.

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[LSchicago]

I hope your right. Will that be true for next year?

If the government doesn't overstep it should be the same, but this this year all things are fair game for doom and gloom in Government.

 

[dogtruck]

Kinda late to the conversation, but.....
I believe this to be a truly non-partisan issue.
If you use it...pay for it.
The application of this user fee is done by morons so be prepared to get angry.

 

[Prickly Pear]

In Washington there was a proposal for an option to self report your mileage. You could either pay the flat fee or opt into the self report program. It didn't go anywhere but I was going to sign up. We all sort of self report at least part of our taxes and I'd hope there would be enough honest people to make the program work.

 

[tom_tucker]

They should be paying us a $100 rebate for driving Hybrids!!! I'm already paying $1000 annually to state tax and local fees. I also live on a toll road that's $12 round trip. This is not a good tax, IMO. Hybrids don't plug in, all the energy comes from gas. Hybrid owners still buy plenty of gas.

 

[finn]

I have a 24 hybrid and a 24 Tremor, 2100 miles apart in different states. I drive them each about 8000 miles per year.

The hybrid is averaging right around 50 mpg, the Tremor Ecoboost about 25 mpg. That’s 160 gallons in the Hybrid per year and 320 in the Tremor..

At $ 3.00 / gallon, that’s $480 more for fuel with the tremor. Still cheaper to drive the hybrid even if there’s a $175 annual tax.

On the other hand, the current $.184 / gallon federal fuel tax only costs $29.44 extra on the tremor over what I’m paying on the hybrid, so there’s a $145 windfall to the government because I chose to drive an economical hybrid for six months of the year.rather than the gas hod Ecoboost.

 

[heady]

It's irrational to tax a non-plugin hybrid with a flat tax. it's double taxation, they already pay gas tax for 100% of the energy used. Tax a PHEV or an EV, sure, but make sure they're taxed at the same average rate as a like for like. So, A crossover EV Mach-E should pay the same average tax as any other crossover getting the average ~30mpg. So if the EV is taxed at $250, the gas tax needs to be raised to 14,263 miles / 30 mpg = 475 gallons, to collect $250 in tax on that vehicle you need to raise the gas tax to 52.5 cents per gallon to implent a fair and rational tax that pays for road wear and tear.

That's really the only rational taxation possible, as road damage scales exponentially with gross weight, so a tax per gallon works fairly well, as class 8 trucks do 90%+ of all road wear and damage. A flat tax for this use case is the result of failing economics class.

 

[Darthie]

I see several news outlets stating that the new proposed budget passed by the house includes " a provision for the Federal Highway Administration to impose a $250 annual fee on all-electric vehicles and a $100 yearly fee for hybrid vehicles. "
Any idea how that would work? When I register here in washington, I thought all of the fees I pay are determined by and go to the state. No federal portion that I know about. Are there any current federal fees we all are paying when we register a car? Our legislature just upped the fee for the "privilege" of owning a hybrid. I'm guessing a federal fee would be added to whatever the state wants to squeeze out of us?

Actuaslly EV's create more wear on roads due to their weight. They should be paying much more than gas cars:
It's a nuanced issue, but generally, yes, electric vehicles (EVs) can contribute more to certain types of road pollutants due to their weight, primarily from tire wear. However, it's crucial to understand the full picture:
Why EVs can contribute more to road pollutants from weight:
* Heavier batteries: EVs are significantly heavier than comparable gasoline cars, largely due to their substantial battery packs. This increased weight puts more stress on tires and the road surface.
* Tire wear: Heavier vehicles lead to increased tire wear. Tires shed tiny particles (microplastics, chemicals, and metallic particles) as they wear down, contributing to particulate matter (PM) pollution in the air and environment. Some sources suggest EV tires wear 20-50% faster than conventional car tires due to the added weight and higher instant torque.
* Road surface wear: Similar to tire wear, the increased weight of EVs can contribute to more wear and tear on road surfaces, generating more particulate matter from the asphalt itself.
Where EVs significantly reduce road pollutants:
* Zero tailpipe emissions: This is the most significant advantage of EVs. They produce absolutely no exhaust emissions, which are a major source of greenhouse gases (like CO2) and harmful air pollutants (like nitrogen oxides, particulate matter, and volatile organic compounds) that contribute to respiratory illnesses, heart disease, and climate change.
* Reduced brake dust: EVs extensively use "regenerative braking," where the electric motor slows the vehicle and converts kinetic energy back into electricity to recharge the battery. This dramatically reduces the need for traditional friction brakes, leading to significantly less brake dust pollution. Studies have shown EVs can reduce brake dust by 83% or more compared to conventional cars. Brake dust is considered more unhealthy than tire wear particles as it's more likely to become airborne and penetrate deeper into the lungs.
Overall impact:
While EVs might generate more particulate matter from tire and road wear, their complete lack of tailpipe emissions is a massive advantage in reducing overall air pollution. Some analyses suggest that even with increased non-exhaust emissions, EVs still result in significantly less total particulate pollution compared to gasoline vehicles when considering all sources.
The exact impact can also depend on:
* Driving conditions: EVs may produce less non-exhaust emissions in heavy city traffic due to more frequent regenerative braking, but potentially more in light traffic or highway driving.
* Tire technology: Tire manufacturers are developing specialized tires for EVs that are designed to be more durable and reduce particulate emissions.
* Energy mix: The "upstream" emissions associated with electricity generation for EVs also play a role in their overall environmental footprint. However, as grids become cleaner with more renewable energy sources, the environmental benefits of EVs continue to grow.
In conclusion, while EV weight does lead to more tire and road wear pollution, this is generally outweighed by the elimination of harmful tailpipe emissions and the significant reduction in brake dust. The net effect is typically a cleaner vehicle overall from an air quality perspective.

It's a nuanced issue, but generally, yes, electric vehicles (EVs) can contribute more to certain types of road pollutants due to their weight, primarily from tire wear. However, it's crucial to understand the full picture:
Why EVs can contribute more to road pollutants from weight:
* Heavier batteries: EVs are significantly heavier than comparable gasoline cars, largely due to their substantial battery packs. This increased weight puts more stress on tires and the road surface.
* Tire wear: Heavier vehicles lead to increased tire wear. Tires shed tiny particles (microplastics, chemicals, and metallic particles) as they wear down, contributing to particulate matter (PM) pollution in the air and environment. Some sources suggest EV tires wear 20-50% faster than conventional car tires due to the added weight and higher instant torque.
* Road surface wear: Similar to tire wear, the increased weight of EVs can contribute to more wear and tear on road surfaces, generating more particulate matter from the asphalt itself.
Where EVs significantly reduce road pollutants:
* Zero tailpipe emissions: This is the most significant advantage of EVs. They produce absolutely no exhaust emissions, which are a major source of greenhouse gases (like CO2) and harmful air pollutants (like nitrogen oxides, particulate matter, and volatile organic compounds) that contribute to respiratory illnesses, heart disease, and climate change.
* Reduced brake dust: EVs extensively use "regenerative braking," where the electric motor slows the vehicle and converts kinetic energy back into electricity to recharge the battery. This dramatically reduces the need for traditional friction brakes, leading to significantly less brake dust pollution. Studies have shown EVs can reduce brake dust by 83% or more compared to conventional cars. Brake dust is considered more unhealthy than tire wear particles as it's more likely to become airborne and penetrate deeper into the lungs.
Overall impact:
While EVs might generate more particulate matter from tire and road wear, their complete lack of tailpipe emissions is a massive advantage in reducing overall air pollution. Some analyses suggest that even with increased non-exhaust emissions, EVs still result in significantly less total particulate pollution compared to gasoline vehicles when considering all sources.
The exact impact can also depend on:
* Driving conditions: EVs may produce less non-exhaust emissions in heavy city traffic due to more frequent regenerative braking, but potentially more in light traffic or highway driving.
* Tire technology: Tire manufacturers are developing specialized tires for EVs that are designed to be more durable and reduce particulate emissions.
* Energy mix: The "upstream" emissions associated with electricity generation for EVs also play a role in their overall environmental footprint. However, as grids become cleaner with more renewable energy sources, the environmental benefits of EVs continue to grow.
In conclusion, while EV weight does lead to more tire and road wear pollution, this is generally outweighed by the elimination of harmful tailpipe emissions and the significant reduction in brake dust. The net effect is typically a cleaner vehicle overall from an air quality perspective.

 

[heady]

Anything below 10,000 GVWR is not doing any realistically measurable road damage, it's counting hairs on a gnats butt. You could drive any passenger vehicle tens of millions of miles an not even come close to doing one big trucks worth of pavement damage. It's red herring distractions for the peanut gallery because they think people are stupid and can't download road and pavement studies from Google Scholar.

 

[AutobahnSHO]

Except a lot of us never step foot in a physical DMV office. And we don't want to. It's all online.

For sure- then allow Ford to tell the DMV what the odometer says.

 

[Prickly Pear]

Oregon has a program that looks like it is heading in the right direction. It does require honest people though. If all you folks think everyone should pay their fair share, then none of you would cheat on your self reporting - right?

https://www.oregon.gov/odot/orego/Pages/FAQ.aspx

 

[The Real Maverick]

Actuaslly EV's create more wear on roads due to their weight. They should be paying much more than gas cars.

Myth. Not fact.

 

[Prickly Pear]

I recently saw this article - Not sure how big of a health hazard bad brake dust is - I know you don't want to breath it, but vehicles with regenerative braking release way less vs ones with standard brakes..

https://electrek.co/2025/05/27/anot...-the-air-study-says-brake-dust-reduced-by-83/

 

[Darthie]

Myth. Not fact.

It's a nuanced issue, but generally, yes, electric vehicles (EVs) can contribute more to certain types of road pollutants due to their weight, primarily from tire wear. However, it's crucial to understand the full picture:
Why EVs can contribute more to road pollutants from weight:
* Heavier batteries: EVs are significantly heavier than comparable gasoline cars, largely due to their substantial battery packs. This increased weight puts more stress on tires and the road surface.
* Tire wear: Heavier vehicles lead to increased tire wear. Tires shed tiny particles (microplastics, chemicals, and metallic particles) as they wear down, contributing to particulate matter (PM) pollution in the air and environment. Some sources suggest EV tires wear 20-50% faster than conventional car tires due to the added weight and higher instant torque.
* Road surface wear: Similar to tire wear, the increased weight of EVs can contribute to more wear and tear on road surfaces, generating more particulate matter from the asphalt itself.
Where EVs significantly reduce road pollutants:
* Zero tailpipe emissions: This is the most significant advantage of EVs. They produce absolutely no exhaust emissions, which are a major source of greenhouse gases (like CO2) and harmful air pollutants (like nitrogen oxides, particulate matter, and volatile organic compounds) that contribute to respiratory illnesses, heart disease, and climate change.
* Reduced brake dust: EVs extensively use "regenerative braking," where the electric motor slows the vehicle and converts kinetic energy back into electricity to recharge the battery. This dramatically reduces the need for traditional friction brakes, leading to significantly less brake dust pollution. Studies have shown EVs can reduce brake dust by 83% or more compared to conventional cars. Brake dust is considered more unhealthy than tire wear particles as it's more likely to become airborne and penetrate deeper into the lungs.
Overall impact:
While EVs might generate more particulate matter from tire and road wear, their complete lack of tailpipe emissions is a massive advantage in reducing overall air pollution. Some analyses suggest that even with increased non-exhaust emissions, EVs still result in significantly less total particulate pollution compared to gasoline vehicles when considering all sources.
The exact impact can also depend on:
* Driving conditions: EVs may produce less non-exhaust emissions in heavy city traffic due to more frequent regenerative braking, but potentially more in light traffic or highway driving.
* Tire technology: Tire manufacturers are developing specialized tires for EVs that are designed to be more durable and reduce particulate emissions.
* Energy mix: The "upstream" emissions associated with electricity generation for EVs also play a role in their overall environmental footprint. However, as grids become cleaner with more renewable energy sources, the environmental benefits of EVs continue to grow.
In conclusion, while EV weight does lead to more tire and road wear pollution, this is generally outweighed by the elimination of harmful tailpipe emissions and the significant reduction in brake dust. The net effect is typically a cleaner vehicle overall from an air quality perspective.

 

[The Real Maverick]

What wears down roads more quickly are F-150's F-250's F-350's going to soccer practice.

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