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- #31
That's what I meant by "see previous comments". I'm going to try those among a few others. Hopefully, I'll be able to tomorrow sometime. I'll definitely report back when I know something!
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Overlooked Subwoofer Problem(especially with hybrid)(Nerd Stuff)
- Thread starter rallyshark
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Oh I must have missed it but just saw it now. That's great news and such a cheaper alternative than trying to get a DSP to fix it. I have used much cheaper OBDII devices so hopefully this helps you all save a few bucks. The one I bought only cost $30 but that was a few years ago. Here is the link if anyone is interested:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F0GVBWY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F0GVBWY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Fornthe requency respons
I don't want to sound like I'm stating the obvious and which you probably already did, especially since you know a heck of a lot more than I do lol, but did you try inverting the phase of your sub? Just saying because I have a Rockford Fosgate P300-8P under the rear bench but mine is at the passenger side, with the port facing the open space on the driver's side. My sub sounded all kinds of awful with big voids and really distressing peaks, until I inverted the phase, now it sounds great from all seats lol.While dialing in my upgraded stereo setup, I was having a heck of a time getting the bass to sound right to me. Having had aftermarket stereos with DSP in all my recent vehicles, I know how the bass should sound on a lot of my music. My sub is a Hertz MPS 250 S2 mounted in the storage area under the rear in a quality enclosure with the proper air space for the sub. That sub should have no issues handling it's duties, but I had to do some serious tweaking of the sub channel EQs to get the bass sounding more normal.
I, like many others, overlooked something obvious. Sub placement! Normally, I consider that a lot with a build, but given my options with the Maverick, I just put it in the most obvious space. Well, that storage area under the rear seat behind the driver is not conducive to low bass response from the driver's listening position! The bass would be much better(for the driver) with an Ecoboost with the sub mounted on the passenger's side under rear seat. With my sub's mounting position, I'm not really hearing the benefit of cabin gain that you usually get with low bass in a car. The sub will usually have better low end extension when mounted near the edges of the interior space opposite of the listening position, but with the hybrid under the rear seat that isn't the case. The direction the sub is firing also plays a part in this. This is why guys are getting pretty good response with their Kicker Hideaways on the back wall.
Long story short, I had to significantly boost the curve from 20hz ramping it down sharply from 31hz and actually having negative boost at 63 hz. I have attached a picture of my EQ setting for the sub for reference. You'll also notice in the pic how much I started cutting things in the upper bass regions. the upper bass is really accentuated with the sub placement. It doesn't help that the Maverick is rattle prone either. My upgraded door speakers handle down to 80 hz with no issues at all. This is not an EQ curve I'm proud of, because I don't like boosting things that much. I boosted at 50hz while cutting sharply at 63 to keep that solid kick and make it sound more "normal" with kick drums. It is what it is though. The sound is MUCH better from the sub. My response is pretty solid down to about 25 hz from the driver's seat now(passenger seat response is closer to 20hz). Before tweaking things like I did, the response was falling down just under 40-45hz. It was there, but weak. For kicks, I tested response with my mic in the passenger seat and the passenger side in the rear. It's neat how can see the low end ramp up in those positions vs the driver's seat.
If any of you guys that installed a sub in the driver's side storage under the rear seat have been thinking the bass just doesn't sound like you expected... Well, now you have a good idea why. If you're running a setup with DSP, you should be able to tune around it for the most part. If you don't have DSP, you may want to get it, unless you're cool with your bass sounding weird. I hope that helps some folks!
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- #34
Oh yeah, I tried that very early on in the process. It is a good thing to mention though, since a lot of people never try switching the phase to get better sound. Switching the phase on individual mids and highs can also yield some surprising results in the soundstage as well!
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- #35
Okay, I tried the 727-01-02 00xx that is listed on the other forums. I honestly can't tell much difference in sound, and my spectrum analyzer readings with a calibrated mic showed very little difference and are probably within the margin for error. The database that was listed on here shows it as DAB/DABO, and I don't know what that is? I will put some more listening time in tomorrow while at work hopefully. Right now, I'm feeling like the first setting I did in the "easy mode" is pretty much all you need to mess with as long as using a DSP of some sort.
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Do you have any updates on your car audio journey? I have the exact same box that you do in my hybrid under the rear seat on the driver's side, and have noticed the same issue. I have a Kicker Key 200.4 feeding Morel Maximo Ultra components in the front and a Key 500.1 feeding a JL 10" 2 ohm subwoofer in that Sound Decisions box. I've been scratching my head on how to fix the subwoofer response without adding something like an Lc7i in front of everything, which would kind of be a huge headache because most of the wiring I ordered in a premade harness (minus a run to the tweeters that I had to make + power and ground)Okay, I tried the 727-01-02 00xx that is listed on the other forums. I honestly can't tell much difference in sound, and my spectrum analyzer readings with a calibrated mic showed very little difference and are probably within the margin for error. The database that was listed on here shows it as DAB/DABO, and I don't know what that is? I will put some more listening time in tomorrow while at work hopefully. Right now, I'm feeling like the first setting I did in the "easy mode" is pretty much all you need to mess with as long as using a DSP of some sort.
I had messed with forscan a little bit but had an issue actually getting it to work. I wonder if it was the OBD cable I ordered so I just ordered the one that you posted earlier in this thread.
I'm hoping changing the EQ setting in Forscan and rerunning the DSP auto calibration on the KEY will finally get me to a point where I'm satisfied with my setup. It's been prety disappointing putting in all this work to have less than satisfying results, I know all the equipment is good so hopefully removing the factory EQ is the last piece of the puzzle.
rallyshark !!Okay, I tried the 727-01-02 00xx that is listed on the other forums. I honestly can't tell much difference in sound, and my spectrum analyzer readings with a calibrated mic showed very little difference and are probably within the margin for error. The database that was listed on here shows it as DAB/DABO, and I don't know what that is? I will put some more listening time in tomorrow while at work hopefully. Right now, I'm feeling like the first setting I did in the "easy mode" is pretty much all you need to mess with as long as using a DSP of some sort.
I am so happy I found this posting! First off, I have been installing after market systems in all my cars since 1974!! So, I know good sound when I hear it. Most people think that when I upgrade my systems, I want a lot of popping bass bombs. NO!! What I want is a baritone sax to sound like a baritone sax! I want to hear the vibrating "Tones" of an upright bass! I want to hear the lower end of a piano clearly!! And I want to hear the thud of the bass drum pedal hitting the bass drum!! So by now, you get where I am coming from.
Most stock stereos sound like the old transistor radios you used to be able to buy at Radio Shack. No highs, especially no lows and all mid-range hell!! So when I install systems, I know what the hell I am doing..................until I installed my system in my non-Bose Maverick. I did a simple 10" woofer, 400amp boost. All I got after the install was a louder Radio Shack transistor radio sound!! I did everything I could to adjust and tweek it. And it seemed like the stock head unit would not respond. In fact, the stock head unit would consistantly lower the sound and in some cases cancel one channel out completely!! So to compensate, I went to the head unit and adjusted the placement of the sound to be more in the rear and to the left side. Now the sound is completely balanced overall! But thanks to you, now I know why!! Everyone else in here said they didn't have any problems, but I think they don't have the ear for sound that you and I have.
Anyway, I will close with this. Please be advised that any forscan adjustments you do will be completely erased with any software recalls performed. So try to save your adjustments if you can.
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- #38
The changes in reply #25 of this thread are all that is needed to bring the bass back. At least in my case. I'll also note that I'm getting my sub signal from the front speakers, and not the rears. I don't know if that would necessarily make a difference personally(I've heard conflicting reports on that). I also know that same section in reply #25 has a setting for the rear speaker type. You can probably change that to the same as the front, if your wiring makes using the front signal an issue I imagine. I actually prefer getting the sub signal from the front, so fading more to the front won't affect the sub level that way.
I've heard of a few folks getting bad OBDII cables. I used the one listed on Forscan's site, which was like $50 I think? I hope that helps!
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- #39
I'm glad you got it where you wanted it! I feel you though, the Maverick has been one of the most difficult setups I've had as far as getting the sound how I wanted it. Switching that EQ flat definitely brought back the real low end that was missing. People don't realize how much bass content there is below 35-45hz. A lot of it isn't in hip hop or electronic music either. There's a good bit of low bass frequencies in musical instruments that people don't know is there, until the hear it on a system that can really play it
I played the guitar and trumpet decades ago. I was in Jazz Band and did a brief stint in classical band in High School. Love all types of music. Once you learn how to play an instrument, music never sounds the same!!I'm glad you got it where you wanted it! I feel you though, the Maverick has been one of the most difficult setups I've had as far as getting the sound how I wanted it. Switching that EQ flat definitely brought back the real low end that was missing. People don't realize how much bass content there is below 35-45hz. A lot of it isn't in hip hop or electronic music either. There's a good bit of low bass frequencies in musical instruments that people don't know is there, until the hear it on a system that can really play it
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that's a lot of info but not quite enough. what exactly is providing the sources for each amp?
if your key 500.1 is getting speaker level from the rear speakers that could be the issue.
Not sure how it is on Mavericks yet but on F150s the rear signals are capped and front channels are full range.
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Both the Kicker Key 200.4 and 500.1 are receiving speaker level input from the front channels.
so, that's not your problem, then.
stupid question, but have you pushed the high/lo input to ensure you're not trying to use low level by mistake? did the learning process complete successfully with the happy beeps on both amps?
I do believe the ACM is filtering at 35hz. I think every Ford made today, except for B&O Unleashed models, has a high pass filter at 35hz or higher to protect the speakers. I am also using a key 500.1 and it definitely restored low bass. my input is different as I'm using the speaker-level from the B&O 6x9 'sub' and I take that into a fairly basic Stinger line out converter. I did that because it gives me a separate gain control, and I didn't have to cut off the RCAs on the Key 500 harness.
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I have the high level input enabled. The bass isn't terrible, and maybe I should have tempered my expectations for a .6 cubic ft under seat box and a 10" sub, but I was expecting more. What kind of setup do you have, what is your 500.1 powering? I'm hoping just the flat EQ option through ForSCAN is enough to get me where I want to be with the system.
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