Let’s talk 2.0 Tunes. Who you going to?

[DesertSweat]

Why not discuss the differences? If flashes were universally better, piggy backs wouldn't be so popular.

A piggy back keeps your factory ECU tune intact, and when removed is untraceable. Who cares? Well, the Maverick is a first year production vehicle with no OTA update functionality, so the chance of you having to show up at the dealership at some point for some kind of minor update is pretty high, and you have that coverage for half a decade or 60K miles, a significant portion of the vehicle's lifespan. Once your vehicle gets black listed, that's it, it doesn't matter if you go to another Ford dealership even in another state.

The piggy backs do indeed "trick" the vehicle into running more aggressive ignition timing and more boost and the like, but has limits on how extreme it can go and how much it can modify. This is a non-issue for most people because its running a tiny turbo anyway (275hp and a nice midrange torque boost is more realistic), so you're more likely to go way out of the efficiency zone of the turbo before you run into other limitations, and the factory systems these days are very smart and learn to adapt to the higher boost. Safety wise, they are generally just fine, just not as aggressive, the knock sensors are still going to protect the engine from silliness, and in fact I'd argue safer because while there is a chance of "bricking" a vehicle with a bad flash, you can't mess up a piggy back because you just unplug it and voila, you're back to stock. Sometimes the piggy backs even have little bluetooth mode toggles, so on your phone you can drive say totally stock most of the time, then a sport mode for a bit of extra power once your engine is warmed up, or if at a light and wanting to show off a race mode that you don't want to run for long periods of time.

But they aren't for people that want to make more extensive changes to their vehicle, in which case you have to go with a flash. With a flash, you're plugging a tool into your OBD2 to literally reprogram the ECU. Because of this, the chance of doing serious damage to your vehicle is far greater, since just like a firmware upgrade on your laptop or whatever things do have the potential to get jacked up, and the tuner can go as crazy as they want far beyond the safety envelope of the Ford engineers, and your warranty is thrown out the window because dealerships aren't stupid and if you come in with a powertrain problem on a turbo vehicle, history of a flash is the first thing they are going to check. If I were almost out of warranty anyway, I'd probably do a flash and look for a conservative tune, but that's not really applicable to a brand new 2022 model.

Piggy backing is far more dangerous because you are modifying what voltages the ECU will see, potentially also bypassing safegaurds. So basically all could be going to hell and your ECU will think everything is fine and dandy. Imagine just one loose wire in the harness. Or one resistor starts to fail.

If the dealer is checking for tunes, piggybacking also leaves clues since piggybacks are selective in what voltages are modified. Also most ECU's only show iterations of flashes, and that's it. They don't show what tables used to be, or what programming was installed. So realistically there isn't a huge risk. But regardless you pay to play.

Flashing is much easier as you can change parameters in tables and work off the factory safegaurds (and there is more then just a knock sensor, there are safegaurds for everything). The only downfall of flashing is that it requires someone to build the software to modify the tables. That takes time. Every time a vehicle comes out, piggyback is first out. But every time I see a flash option come out, everyone jumps ship from the piggyback to flash. Flash is superior by every means.

Any monkey can make a piggyback module if you understand what the 0-5V corresponds to and how to modify the voltage. That's why it still exists.

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[DesertSweat]

I built a pretty sweet Abarth.


I don’t agree with your statement about the DP not freeing up any power. With a tune (and potentially cat back depending on how restricted the stock setup is) a better flowing DP will always make more power.

Ive bee doing my homework on 2.0 tuning. It’s going to be interesting to see if FORD makes a performance tune for it. I sure hope so.

Totally agree with you. The catalytic converters are the most restrictive element of pretty much any turbo exhaust. It's generally right after the turbo and reduces the pressure differential pre turbine to post turbine. The differential in pressure is what drives the turbine.

When you create a better flowing exhaust, response is increased, EGT's are lower (if you held boost, timing, etc constant), you can flow more due to increased pressure differential.

Every car i've had experience with factory turbo cars ms3/6, n54, n55, subaru ej motors, focus eb motors, the catalytic converter removal is the best bang for buck to more power.

 

[Mav]

Totally agree with you. The catalytic converters are the most restrictive element of pretty much any turbo exhaust. It's generally right after the turbo and reduces the pressure differential pre turbine to post turbine. The differential in pressure is what drives the turbine.

When you create a better flowing exhaust, response is increased, EGT's are lower (if you held boost, timing, etc constant), you can flow more due to increased pressure differential.

Every car i've had experience with factory turbo cars ms3/6, n54, n55, subaru ej motors, focus eb motors, the catalytic converter removal is the best bang for buck to more power.

Yup. The more this dude try’s to argue his point, the more I realize he doesn’t know what he thinks he knows.

Some people might prefer a stock tuned ecu. Probably the same people that prefer sex with condoms and the lights off. Everyone has a right to their one preference, but not their own facts.

 

[JASmith]

Piggyback is a half assed way of tuning. They have inherent issues that tunes don’t. Most common being harness problems. And using guesswork in terms of data.

You need to learn to elaborate more than one liners if you want people to understand what you're even trying to say and be able to offer a rebuttal... they have issues... ok vague much? And if you're implying that piggybacks all require harness splicing, that's obviously not true, the good kits have proper OEM harnesses for plug and play functionality.

I don’t agree with your statement about the DP not freeing up any power. With a tune (and potentially cat back depending on how restricted the stock setup is) a better flowing DP will always make more power.

Remember, we're talking about a tiny little twin scroll turbo so you're not going to have any issues hitting and exceeding max turbo RPMs well before you hit peak horsepower, so there's no need to massively pollute and have to bribe state inspectors and have a stinky exhaust when you can get plenty of backpressure reduction from working catback. Besides, while removing post turbo restriction improves responsiveness (not really peak power), a little bit of back pressure is good to have anyway to prevent inadvertent over spool where the tiny little turbo is momentarily flying past its desired peak RPM when quickly spooling.

 

[pxpaulx]

With regard to your edit, of course if Ford offers a tune, that's a no-brainer. I'd jump on that too if priced right.

Ranger I recall is around $700 and that includes whatever the plugin unit is that does the tuning (so you can change back to stock if wanted). I would expect similar pricing, which, given it would be fully warrantied seems quite reasonable to me!

Correction - $825 full MSRP for the ranger tune, which includes the calibration tool and an K&N filter. Also requires dealer install to be eligible for warranty...not sure how much or if they'd charge for that (which shouldn't be much, just a couple of downloads/uploads involved).

 

[Mav]

Wonder if Ford points can be used for a tune and intake

 

[balucipher]

Looks like livernois does an escape tune. Someone email them about a Maverick tune

 

[Mav]

Looks like livernois does an escape tune. Someone email them about a Maverick tune

Used them in my SHO. And that thing was a beast.

 

[ghaberek]

This. I will wait for the ford performance tune! It was out within a year for the ranger, and is warrantied!

Same here. Use the Ford tune and bolt-on parts (hopefully) and then tune the heck out of it after it's paid off and the warranty's expired!

 

[balucipher]

I don't want the Ford tune because part of the cost is getting it CA compliant and it's just a 91 octane tune. It's also pretty conservative overall.

Give me a 93 octane tune, I don't care about emissions compliance.

 

[Mav]

I don't want the Ford tune because part of the cost is getting it CA compliant and it's just a 91 octane tune. It's also pretty conservative overall.

Give me a 93 octane tune, I don't care about emissions compliance.

I tend to agree. Ford “performance” tune will likely be pretty weak. They should offer a test tune to see if you like it. I know APR let’s you run a sample of their tune that expires after a short time/distance. I want a tune for 93/e85 if I can do it without dealing with warranty bullshit

 

[fury88]

I’m so glad I found this thread! I have my truck on order. Lariat EcoBoost loaded. I owned the 2.3L EcoBoost Mustang at one point and that engine flew! I tuned it and got a pretty good bang for the buck. Very much looking forward to doing this with the Maverick. I expect 300/300 is doable as someone else mentioned.

 

[Sumo E]

So I’m trying to map out my tune process. Going to keep this one simple. A tune, drop in filter, and possibly intercooler and downpipe. Looking for a 300hp+/300tq+ end result.
Im not new to turbos and cars. I’ve built a few and broken many.

Who are you guys going to for tunes when you get your Mavericks? What are you expecting as far as power?


please spare me the: “
I dOnT nEeD aNY mOrE pOweR thAn oEm… YoUr gUnNa bLoW yUr mOToR!”

Nobody needs that kind of negativity.

 

[Sumo E]

I think SCT has a 2.0 tuner for the bronco sport/escape. Curious how/if it will work for us. Lil worried about how the awd system will hold up around 300 hp range though.

 

[fury88]

I think SCT has a 2.0 tuner for the bronco sport/escape. Curious how/if it will work for us. Lil worried about how the awd system will hold up around 300 hp range though.

Not sure for the trucks but it was a great tuner for the Mustang EcoBoost. I’d definitely buy it again. I sold it when I sold the stang.

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