If all Hybrids will not be built, will ford give option to purchase EB

[RockHoundTX]

No, I really don't understand how as you said "how things work". That is why I am here, asking. Thanks for your response and information. What you expressed about parts being at the manufacture as a mean of determining who get built sounds ethical and logical. However in your case and your wait...definitely upsets me.

So you still do not have a vin number even after calling the manufacturer? thats plain ugly.

No, even after well over a year, I still do not have a VIN. Since I ordered what ended up being a "highly constrained" item (i.e, XL Hybrid which will make up only 5% of all Mavericks built this year), I put my chances of actually getting one at maybe 20% and that is just because I was a roll-over that my dealer placed as a Priority 10. If I were a new order placed as a Priority 15, then my chances would be way, way less (probably closer to zero).

Last year I contacted Ford (via both Chat and phone) approximately a dozen times. No matter what you ask them, they will give you the same canned answer every single time (You are "unscheduled: clean" and will be processed as soon as possible...If you have questions, your dealer is the best source of information.... etc.). When I talked to my dealer, their response was always "Ford tells us nothing. We know nothing".

Again, it comes down to allocation. If a dealer has an allocation of 20 Hybrids for the year, then only 1 of those is likely to be a Hybrid XL. Thus if you are the 3rd or 4th Hybrid XL at a mid-size dealer (which may only have 50 or 60 allocations for the year), then your chances are near zero. However, if you picked a Eco XL and you are 3rd or 4th in line, you may still have a shot.

You may also want to look at some of the threads from mid-September. That will give you an idea as to how screwed up things are. Ford originally was telling dealers that their allocations were maybe 10%-20% of what they got last year (which was already pitifully low). That is why some dealers stopped taking orders on Saturday and Sunday. Also notice that Ford originally told dealers that they would give 2 weeks notice before stopping orders but ended up giving only 1 or 2 days notice. I think the Ford e-mail that talks about the constraints and percentages came out on Sunday which is after most people had placed their order. If you look through the mid-September archives, I am sure you could find it.

Be glad that you even have an order (i.e., a chance) since many folks do not. Because of the incompetence of both Ford and dealers, there were some MY22 orders that were never converted to MY23. There were several posts on here where people said "my dealer said that MY22 would be converted automatically by Ford so did not create a new MY23 order". That turned out to be 100% wrong and left people that had already been waiting 12+ months without an order at all.

The general concensus for those of us that have been here for 12+ months is "never believe what a dealer or Ford says until you have verified it yourself through at least 3 other sources". There are literally hundreds (thousands?) of examples on the Forum of dealers (and Ford itself) saying things that are completely untrue. In March, Ford stated on here that they would no longer be using allocation and would go to a First-In/First-Out model. That ended up being a complete and total lie and was back-tracked in about June (my personal guess is that Ford "planned" to do FIFO but got so much pressure from the big dealers that they dropped it but did not tell anyone).

Until there is more supply than demand, Ford does not really care about us. Currently, dealers (particularly the big dealers) are the tail that wags the dog. Ford is trying to do something about that with the new EV program but that is also turning out to be a complete disaster (ton of discussion on YouTube on that subject).

Sponsored

 

[commadorebob]

To be honest, I’ve been wondering how the heck they allowed the system to even accept as many hybrids as it did. Amazon tells you how many in stock items there are, why didn’t they do something similar? They at least could have ran multiple “retail order days” to allow the hybrid orders to trickle in.

also glad I’m not alone in thinking the most reasonable timeline for allowing engine changes is much later.

Allocations. There isn't a master order bank. Each dealership is allowed a certain number of orders. What they could have done is only allowed a certain number of orders per dealer based on that allocation with a little slush for constraints purposes. But I have no idea how hard that would be to implement within their current system.

 

[JimmyH]

nah, he is right if a bit abrasive, the titles reads like it is presenting a fact not a question.

The though is in the right place though, Ford should offer this, but logic and reasoning in favor of the end customer don't seem to belong with the decision makers.

So, I'm curious why some feel that Ford "should" offer the ability for orders to be changed from Hybrid to EB. Having an EB order myself, I fail to see the "logic and reasoning" with this. If it were to happen this way, and I started seeing orders that were changed from Hybrid to EB being filled before my order that was originally placed as an EB, I damn sure wouldn't feel that it was in my "favor" as the end customer. Infact, I'd be downright pissed off. Maybe, once all EB orders are filled, but I think if it happens before then and further disrupts the Maverick Lottery, there are just going to be more angry customers.

 

[RockHoundTX]

To be honest, I’ve been wondering how the heck they allowed the system to even accept as many hybrids as it did. Amazon tells you how many in stock items there are, why didn’t they do something similar? They at least could have ran multiple “retail order days” to allow the hybrid orders to trickle in.

also glad I’m not alone in thinking the most reasonable timeline for allowing engine changes is much later.

Actually, I think there is an easy explanation for this. Originally, Ford had told dealers that they would give 2 weeks notice before closing the order banks. Order banks opened late on the day of the 15th and immediately crashed. Not sure how many orders actually went in that day. Many of the dealers here said they were not able to input any orders that day. The 16th was just a little better. Some orders were going in but really, really slowly. It wasn't until Saturday the 17th that the system was "usable" to input orders (but still slow). However, there were many reports on here that specific dealers were still unable to place orders for what-ever reason. On Sunday Ford sent out the e-mail saying they were shutting down the order bank with just 1 and 2 days notice.

Ford basically had to leave the order banks open on Monday since there were still dealers that had been locked out and been unable to input no orders. Othere dealers had a list of 100s of orders that they still needed to input since they could not do it over the weekend (I think there was some sort of sales confernce that weekend?). As such, I don't think Ford realized how bad things were until Saturday evening, crafted the message on Sunday morning, and politically could not close the order banks until Monday/Tuesday evening. Complete incompetence on the part of Ford but not something anyone at Ford cares about since no-one would loose their job over having "too many orders". In fact, someone probably got promoted since having more demand than supply actually can look good to investors.

 

[commadorebob]

So, I'm curious why some feel that Ford "should" offer the ability for orders to be changed from Hybrid to EB. Having an EB order myself, I fail to see the "logic and reasoning" with this. If it were to happen this way, and I started seeing orders that were changed from Hybrid to EB being filled before my order that was originally placed as an EB, I damn sure wouldn't feel that it was in my "favor" as the end customer. Infact, I'd be downright pissed off. Maybe, once all EB orders are filled, but I think if it happens before then and further disrupts the Maverick Lottery, there are just going to be more angry customers.

I personally don't think they will. But if they do, it will be after they finish the current EB orders. Or Ford will simply reopen the order banks for EBs only and it is up the customer to place a brand new order irrespective of any current hybrid order.

My honest opinion is Ford simply starts building EB stock once the current retail orders are complete as a bone thrown to the dealerships for the hybrids they won't be able to fulfill.

 

[gwrace14651]

I for one will be glad to see dealers get some stock on EB's. My son has been trying to find a 2022 EB with lux package and AWD. Every stealership contacted is asking 5k over MSRP and refusing to go any lower. We will continue to walk away from these bandits.

 

[NoVaJimmy]

So, I'm curious why some feel that Ford "should" offer the ability for orders to be changed from Hybrid to EB. Having an EB order myself, I fail to see the "logic and reasoning" with this. If it were to happen this way, and I started seeing orders that were changed from Hybrid to EB being filled before my order that was originally placed as an EB, I damn sure wouldn't feel that it was in my "favor" as the end customer. Infact, I'd be downright pissed off. Maybe, once all EB orders are filled, but I think if it happens before then and further disrupts the Maverick Lottery, there are just going to be more angry customers.

Ford had so many "angry customers" on these forums during most of 2022 production. People who didn't understand the allocation system or the constraints yet they somehow managed to sell out 2023 production in a few days. I doubt they're concerned with creating "angry customers" but I disagree with you and feel that hybrid orders that won't be produced should be allowed to convert to EB. They ordered something and you would have waited anyway, Ford took a certain amount of orders, they're not increasing that number they're just changing the makeup of the orders. You would stand to benefit anyway considering it's almost guaranteed that not all cancelled hybrid orders will convert to Ecoboost so essentially they're lowering the production number and increasing your chance of getting built sooner. Ford is at least trying to make it right for them.

 

[OXHB619]

So, I'm curious why some feel that Ford "should" offer the ability for orders to be changed from Hybrid to EB. Having an EB order myself, I fail to see the "logic and reasoning" with this. If it were to happen this way, and I started seeing orders that were changed from Hybrid to EB being filled before my order that was originally placed as an EB, I damn sure wouldn't feel that it was in my "favor" as the end customer. Infact, I'd be downright pissed off. Maybe, once all EB orders are filled, but I think if it happens before then and further disrupts the Maverick Lottery, there are just going to be more angry customers.

They have plenty of capacity as far as EB, and some of us have had orders in since 2021.

They aren't going to do it, so no reason to get bent out of shape.

 

[minitrucknuts]

Its only stupid,,,if indeed your a person that doesn't like to weight options by desiring to know facts. Thats called logic

4 misspellings and some interesting punctuation, while speaking about intelligence? And if it was so smart, why did you change it?

 

[minitrucknuts]

I for one will be glad to see dealers get some stock on EB's. My son has been trying to find a 2022 EB with lux package and AWD. Every stealership contacted is asking 5k over MSRP and refusing to go any lower. We will continue to walk away from these bandits.

What makes you think the hypothetical stock EBs will be any different?

 

[gwrace14651]

We live in a supply vs demand capital system. If supply ever exceeds demand prices should drop. We could also see competitors drop some new small truck models giving buyers more choices.

 

[JimmyH]

Ford had so many "angry customers" on these forums during most of 2022 production. People who didn't understand the allocation system or the constraints yet they somehow managed to sell out 2023 production in a few days. I doubt they're concerned with creating "angry customers" but I disagree with you and feel that hybrid orders that won't be produced should be allowed to convert to EB. They ordered something and you would have waited anyway, Ford took a certain amount of orders, they're not increasing that number they're just changing the makeup of the orders. You would stand to benefit anyway considering it's almost guaranteed that not all cancelled hybrid orders will convert to Ecoboost so essentially they're lowering the production number and increasing your chance of getting built sooner. Ford is at least trying to make it right for them.

Agreed, it doesn't seem like the focus is worrying about angry customers.

Also agreed, I would have waited anyways. And I am currently waiting. But... I would be waiting even longer if orders that were changed from Hybrid to EB were getting filled before my original EB order.

Also, how exactly would I benefit if currently, just for example, there were 27,520 (roughly 32% of 86,000) EB orders, but then people were allowed to change their orders and ended up doubling that and making the total 55,040 EB orders?

In regards to those that "ordered something". I agree, it's a bad situation and sucks. And I believe that eventually allowing them to change their orders or reopen the order banks may bring peace to some. But, the fact is that I placed an order for a product that could be filled, they did not. Why should I have to possibly wait longer for my product, so that others could change their orders just to get one. I know it sounds like I'm being and @-hole, but I guess, it is what it is.

 

[OXHB619]

Also, how exactly would I benefit if currently, just for example, there were 27,520 (roughly 32% of 86,000) EB orders, but then people were allowed to change their orders and ended up doubling that and making the total 55,040 EB orders?

If Ford can make 65k EB and 35K Hybrid per constraints, allowing a quantity to change that fits those numbers. You don't personally benefit, but you are just drop in the ocean of dollars that Ford wants to come back the next time around.

The only reason to oppose this is being selfish, " I ordered after them, but a different engine, so its not fair they get theirs first"

I see no basis to complain unless an order placed after yours gets made first.

Again, hypothetical, doubt Ford would do this. I agree with others they will fill Dealer orders and then just tell Hybrid orders too bad so sad, try again next year, and the defense of " We told dealers there would be no roll overs for '23, so you were warned"

 

[RockHoundTX]

What makes you think the hypothetical stock EBs will be any different?

If the trend over the last 3 months continues, the car sales industry should be much different come next summer when stock dealer orders would theoretically start hitting lots. Most chip related issues should be resolved over the next 6 months (lots of capacity opening up right now). More importantly, the used car market is plummeting (down 15% since late June and continuing to fall by 1% per week). The high used car prices are a primary reason why dealers can get "over MSRP" right now on new vehicles. Finally, the foot traffic at dealerships are WAY down since interest rates went up. My guess is that the number of folks that legitimately "walk away" when their Maverick orders come in will be 2x or 3x what it was this year (due to higher interest rates, job loss, finding a cheaper used vehicle in the mean-time, etc.).

While there are definitely some supply constraints, most sources say that they are easing. Most projections are that auto-makers will be producing significantly more vehicles next year. As inventory goes up and demand goes down, I don't think most dealerships will be able to continue to sell at significantly over MSRP. My personal prediction is that "high demand" vehicles such at the Maverick Hybrid will still be at MSRP or slightly above but EB Mavericks will be selling for under MSRP come late next year. Only time will tell if this is correct but lots of data pointing to that direction (Black Book, YAA, JP Morgan, etc.).

 

[JimmyH]

The only reason to oppose this is being selfish, " I ordered after them, but a different engine, so its not fair they get theirs first"

I'm failing to see how that is being selfish. For example, let's say I ordered my kid an XBOX Series X for Christmas. But someone else who ordered a Playstation 5 a day before I placed my XBOX order later realized that they might not get their Playstation and was able to change their order to an XBOX and get one that came available before I got my order filled. This in turn required my order to take longer and thus not arrive by Christmas. They didn't order an XBOX, they ordered a Playstation. Likewise, they didn't order an EB, they ordered a Hybrid. Different game system, different product. Different engine, different product.

Honestly, I'm not bent out of shape. Just trying to understand the other way of thinking. Now I will be if this scenario plays out.

Also, for the record, I already bought my kid's XBOX Series X and have it stashed away for Christmas.

Sponsored