Comma 3x OpenPilot installed

[sgtcurry]

I just received my Comma 3x and finally got everything installed. Installation was relatively easy but getting it to work was quite more work than expected. Documentation for specific troubleshooting issues right now needs a bit of improvement.

I will be updating my experience over the coming weeks. I will use it this weekend on a short fishing trip to Galveston, TX.

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[JimParker256]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "Comma 3x"? My google-fu appears to be weak this morning...

 

[sgtcurry]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "Comma 3x"? My google-fu appears to be weak this morning...

Comma 3x is the name of the device from comma.ai. It runs openpilot which enables some advanced cruise control features right now to make lariat mavericks with acc work like blue cruise. It also has some experimental stuff like Tesla fsd. You can learn more at comma.ai.

 

[NJBob]

What did it take to install? Have to add extra cameras? Cut into wiring harneses?

 

[sgtcurry]

What did it take to install? Have to add extra cameras? Cut into wiring harneses?

You mount the unit on the windshield and you connect the camera harness to their harness. Then there is an Ethernet cable from the obd port to that harness. Wiring it up takes maybe 5 minutes. The mounting on the windshield takes the longest time since you need it centered on the windshield. The stock maverick camera is actual centered so you can use that as a reference point.

 

[Mas280]

I plan to add to my Maverick when it comes in. They work very good on other cars. Do you know if it will work with XLT or will I have to add the radar from the lariat?

 

[sgtcurry]

I plan to add to my Maverick when it comes in. They work very good on other cars. Do you know if it will work with XLT or will I have to add the radar from the lariat?

You have to have copilot and the radar. Because you need to have lane centering as well as of this moment.

 

[Mas280]

You have to have copilot and the radar. Because you need to have lane centering as well as of this moment.

I have copilot 360 but will need to add the radar. Update us on how it performs

 

[colinl]

I hadn't seen this thread until today, and there was a question about Comma in another thread recently. Comma needs Adaptive Cruise with Lane Centering (a few Ford models have ACC but don't have lane centering, oddly enough) because that's what it takes to actively steer and do the stop & go for traffic lights and stop signs.

I was not a fan of Comma when they debuted with 1 camera, and now they have 3, but one of them is inside the vehicle, so to me that's really only 2 cameras watching traffic. I bet the interior camera exists for Comma to prove that you weren't paying attention when there's an accident and you try to blame Comma.

With 2 exterior cameras rather than just 1, I'm still not a fan because ACC has a forward-facing radar and Comma doesn't use it. Radar senses things that cameras cannot, it doesn't matter how good the camera is - and I have no doubt the Comma cameras are better than the one Ford includes with the Maverick's ACC.

 

[sgtcurry]

I hadn't seen this thread until today, and there was a question about Comma in another thread recently. Comma needs Adaptive Cruise with Lane Centering (a few Ford models have ACC but don't have lane centering, oddly enough) because that's what it takes to actively steer and do the stop & go for traffic lights and stop signs.

I was not a fan of Comma when they debuted with 1 camera, and now they have 3, but one of them is inside the vehicle, so to me that's really only 2 cameras watching traffic. I bet the interior camera exists for Comma to prove that you weren't paying attention when there's an accident and you try to blame Comma.

With 2 exterior cameras rather than just 1, I'm still not a fan because ACC has a forward-facing radar and Comma doesn't use it. Radar senses things that cameras cannot, it doesn't matter how good the camera is - and I have no doubt the Comma cameras are better than the one Ford includes with the Maverick's ACC.

Comma does absolutely use the Ford radar for ACC in stock form. I am not 100% certain if they are using ford radar for their experimental mode though.

 

[colinl]

Comma does absolutely use the Ford radar for ACC in stock form. I am not 100% certain if they are using ford radar for their experimental mode though.

I think you're mistaken about that. They had a blog post specifically about how they don't need LIDAR.

Do you have any documentation specifically stating they do use the ACC radar?

 

[sgtcurry]

I think you're mistaken about that. They had a blog post specifically about how they don't need LIDAR.

Do you have any documentation specifically stating they do use the ACC radar?

I’m 100% not mistaken.

https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/docs/CARS.md#footnotes

You can read what cars use what. Openpilot defaults to ACC unless you toggle the longitudinal control alpha. The maverick is supported on that alpha but when you install it stock it uses Ford ACC.

I think you misread what they said. They don't need LIDAR when their end to end Longitudinal control comes out (its not out yet, its in alpha). But for right now unless you want to test it out the official openpilot release still uses Ford ACC. A lot of cars are ACC only.

 

[colinl]

I’m 100% not mistaken.

https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/docs/CARS.md#footnotes

You can read what cars use what. Openpilot defaults to ACC unless you toggle the longitudinal control alpha. The maverick is supported on that alpha but when you install it stock it uses Ford ACC.

I think you misread what they said. They don't need LIDAR when their end to end Longitudinal control comes out (its not out yet, its in alpha). But for right now unless you want to test it out the official openpilot release still uses Ford ACC. A lot of cars are ACC only.

I probably have a bit of a reputation with arguing here, but it's usually because I'm right or have a valid point.

However in this case, you as a Comma user and me as a skeptical Ford factory ACC user, I looked into it more and found that you're right. I personally doubt I'd ever convert away from radar-based longitudinal control to just cameras, even though Tesla did it. (Look at what has happened with autopilot since.) I've always thought Comma was cool, just didn't understand how anyone would give up the radar.

I'm still not interested in Comma because I can't come around to trusting it and taking the risk. Everything about it screams liability a little too loudly for me to enjoy it. Another aspect is how rapidly it's changing now, I don't want to spend the time staying SOTA on either the hardware (Comma v3 is brand new, but I bet even more is coming) or especially the software.

I also have to wonder when they'll license it to a manufacturer who is behind on this type of technology, or convert Comma to a recurring payment licensing method. Long term I can't see open source being viable, I think they'll take what they want when development slows and roll it into a commercial product. A couple examples of that, if you're in IT (and most people who would do this are) would be NSX and Sourcefire.

 

[sgtcurry]

I probably have a bit of a reputation with arguing here, but it's usually because I'm right or have a valid point.

However in this case, you as a Comma user and me as a skeptical Ford factory ACC user, I looked into it more and found that you're right. I personally doubt I'd ever convert away from radar-based longitudinal control to just cameras, even though Tesla did it. (Look at what has happened with autopilot since.) I've always thought Comma was cool, just didn't understand how anyone would give up the radar.

I'm still not interested in Comma because I can't come around to trusting it and taking the risk. Everything about it screams liability a little too loudly for me to enjoy it. Another aspect is how rapidly it's changing now, I don't want to spend the time staying SOTA on either the hardware (Comma v3 is brand new, but I bet even more is coming) or especially the software.

I also have to wonder when they'll license it to a manufacturer who is behind on this type of technology, or convert Comma to a recurring payment licensing method. Long term I can't see open source being viable, I think they'll take what they want when development slows and roll it into a commercial product. A couple examples of that, if you're in IT (and most people who would do this are) would be NSX and Sourcefire.

I think its great to be skeptical of any new technology. But I don't tend to buy things for what it could do in the future but what it does today. Openpilot on the comma 3x with just lateral control and stock Ford ACC is worth it to me. I could not trust Ford's lane centering, it likes to steer into exits and turn lanes on country roads and it turns off with only a second notice. It was also not hands-free. I have driven about 300 miles now with the comma 3x and lateral control is really just as good as I am. I have not needed to take over because it wasn't steering correctly only because I didn't trust Ford ACC to stop.

Also to note, Openpilot is open source and you can yourself tune things or try the many forks the community has created.

On your other point on the hardware. The comma 3 now a year old and the 3x is just an incremental improvement on the parts that had issues on the 3. Comma used the same internals but improved manufacturing to make it more reliable and by their report the 3x has had a 1% failure rate vs the over 10% on the comma 3 when it launched. The only exception is they used to need an external can bus decoder that is now internal so wiring everything is a lot cleaner.

Personally, I have been monitoring Openpilot on and off since they started and at the current price $1450 I think its more than worth it if you plan on taking a lot of road trips like I do. I plan on taking a road trip to Arizona or Utah in a few months so I will update the OP more after.

 

[colinl]

Yep, I'm familiar with the behaviors of Ford's ACC, it is very intolerant of roads that are missing proper lane markings. (There is supposed to be a tight dotted line at highway exits.) However, the main thing it does for me it does well, it will steer into crosswind fast enough that you don't leave the lane. I presume Open Pilot does that too? It should be able to since it has better cameras than the Ford native system.

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