Battery dead why?

[EONR24]

The flooded battery is undercharged at 80% and the coding suggests that ALL Mavericks are configured for AGM batteries not flooded. Even though All Hybrids are equipped with Flooded Batteries from the factory.. Not to mention the power going to interior and exterior 12v sources stays on in the Maverick for 4500 seconds after you turn the ignition off. (1 hr 15 minutes.) even if you lock the vehicle... SO yeah it doesn't surprise me that this leads to premature battery failure. The batteries are not high quality to begin with..

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[grumpyunk]

Best explanation of why all these battery issues are occurring. Though it does seem unusual that it would go from normal to completely dead that fast.

From the response (or specifically, the lack there of), I assume Ford is betting most peoples batteries will (barely) make it past the 3 year/36,000 mile warranty period before dieing completely, then it's not their problem any more.

Someone posted that in order to change the battery size or type, they would have to resubmit the vehicle to have the fuel economy recertified. Which if true, there's no way that's going to happen, hence an additional reason for the refusal to acknowledge the battery issue.

I think the problem is the SOC - State Of Charge - set in the software. The charging system monitors battery voltage, and cuts down the load on the alternator when the battery voltage reaches the desired SOC. If you set it to a lower level, the alternator can take a vacation even as you cruise down the Interstate. The setting essentially lowers the capacity of the battery to something like 70% of the stated. When the electronics are left powered up even with the ignition OFF, the battery will discharge enough in a week to potentially send the notice about the system going to sleep. I have had low charge conditions ever since purchase, such that even after a 1000 mile trip the AutoSS did not work for more than one cycle. The battery was around 12.4V, while a fully charged battery is 12.6V.
The end result is a tiny bit better fuel economy but a quicker(potential) reduction in battery capacity due to not being kept fully charged.
OTOH, I am not an engineer.

 

[EONR24]

 

[Packer Bill]

The end result is a tiny bit better fuel economy but a quicker(potential) reduction in battery capacity due to not being kept fully charged.

You are 100% correct. After 2 years of a degrading battery, I installed an AGM battery and charge the charge level to 95%. I have no problems for a few months now and anticipate no more issues with the battery down the road.

 

[Maverick2023]

I too parked my Maverick at the airport from Thursday to Sunday. The truck started up just fine. Prior to this I had 2 deep sleep warnings a year ago where remote start did not work and messages popped up on Ford Pass app. I unplugged my dash cam and charger prior to leaving it. Not sure if that made a difference though.

 

[Archivist Engineer]

I think the problem is the SOC - State Of Charge - set in the software. The charging system monitors battery voltage, and cuts down the load on the alternator when the battery voltage reaches the desired SOC. If you set it to a lower level, the alternator can take a vacation even as you cruise down the Interstate. The setting essentially lowers the capacity of the battery to something like 70% of the stated. When the electronics are left powered up even with the ignition OFF, the battery will discharge enough in a week to potentially send the notice about the system going to sleep. I have had low charge conditions ever since purchase, such that even after a 1000 mile trip the AutoSS did not work for more than one cycle. The battery was around 12.4V, while a fully charged battery is 12.6V.
The end result is a tiny bit better fuel economy but a quicker(potential) reduction in battery capacity due to not being kept fully charged.
OTOH, I am not an engineer.

Correct. There's also the additional issue of the voltage being higher than designed for a flooded battery, which means the cells are slowly being damaged every time it is recharged. Which leads to a self-destructive cycle of damaged cells increasing resistance which lowers capacity which further damages the cells by being undercharged.

I am an engineer, though not an electrical one.

 

[grumpyunk]

Correct. There's also the additional issue of the voltage being higher than designed for a flooded battery, which means the cells are slowly being damaged every time it is recharged. Which leads to a self-destructive cycle of damaged cells increasing resistance which lowers capacity which further damages the cells by being undercharged.

I am an engineer, though not an electrical one.

The battery installed in an ecoboost is an AGM battery. I do not know what type of 12V battery is installed in hybrids.
My thoughts were that the chemistry of both would be the same, and thus the end, fully charged voltage would be the same, 2.1v per cell X 6== 12.6 for a fully charged lead/acid battery.
I did wonder about the charge 'style', as in pump in the amps as fast as you can, or a more sedate charge where the amp are kept lower as an AGM might(a guess) have more problems passing the gases produced when charging due to the mechanical difference between a gel and a liquid electrolyte. Repeating, not an engineer, but practice in my head just in case.
tom

 

[XLT 4k Cactus Gray]

The battery installed in an ecoboost is an AGM battery. I do not know what type of 12V battery is installed in hybrids.
My thoughts were that the chemistry of both would be the same, and thus the end, fully charged voltage would be the same, 2.1v per cell X 6== 12.6 for a fully charged lead/acid battery.
I did wonder about the charge 'style', as in pump in the amps as fast as you can, or a more sedate charge where the amp are kept lower as an AGM might(a guess) have more problems passing the gases produced when charging due to the mechanical difference between a gel and a liquid electrolyte. Repeating, not an engineer, but practice in my head just in case.
tom

Maybe in your EcoBoost but my 2022 EcoBoost has the enhanced flooded battery

 

[Archivist Engineer]

The battery installed in an ecoboost is an AGM battery. I do not know what type of 12V battery is installed in hybrids.
My thoughts were that the chemistry of both would be the same, and thus the end, fully charged voltage would be the same, 2.1v per cell X 6== 12.6 for a fully charged lead/acid battery.
I did wonder about the charge 'style', as in pump in the amps as fast as you can, or a more sedate charge where the amp are kept lower as an AGM might(a guess) have more problems passing the gases produced when charging due to the mechanical difference between a gel and a liquid electrolyte. Repeating, not an engineer, but practice in my head just in case.
tom

For the Hybrid's a stock flooded battery. The ecoboosts were as well, at least up until this year. I've heard conflicting reports on what is in the 2024s. Forscan and the BMS say AGM in all of them, but physically checking the battery shows they are flooded batteries.

I'm reaching the limits of my knowledge here, but my understanding is that's both over and undercharging the stock battery. The differences in the charging between two is that AGMs charge at a higher voltage, but have lower resistance and can regularly operate at lower charges before recharging without damaging the battery. High voltage with lower resistance eqauls lower ampage required.

So the BMS is putting too high of voltage to the flooded battery, which has discharged lower than it was designed for. This damages the cells, which slowly increases the internal resistance of the battery. Resistance naturally increases as a battery is charged until reaches close to "capacity" which is the point the resistance is greater than the charge voltage. Over time, this increased resistance will build to the point that even the higher voltage isn't able to fully recharge the battery, at which point it start to become undercharged.

Meanwhile, the BMS will constantly be trying to recharge the battery to capacity with too high of voltage, which leads to further damage, which leads to increased resistance, which leads to lowered capacity, in a self-destructive cycle.

 

[grumpyunk]

I think I used the wrong words... I was told that the battery was a hybrid? or some other word that indicated it was neither pure flooded nor pure AGM. A pretty close examination of the labels ends up telling me nothing more.
A search for battery type of the factory BHEF-48H6 indicated it was a standard FLA, and the dealer supplied replacement, the BAGM-48H6-750 is AGM.
Actually, one source, O'Reilly indicated the BAGM was flooded....
The battery industry seems to provide conflicting or rather nebulous descriptions depending on who you ask.
Now, I am officially on the verge of confusion, but that may be the norm these days.
I have turned off the modem/WiFi as the battery will not retain a charge without sending out a warning that it was turning off stuff to save the battery for starting... within a week of a full charge.
Parked in an airport parking lot for a 10-day stay somewhere could be 'interesting'. Sadly. My old Sable with whatever was on sale under the hood started reliably in the middle of January in ATL after two weeks away. I dunno if the Mav could perform as well.
Just noted the designation of the dealer replacement... right there in front of eyeballs - BAGM - the AGM being right there... maybe it is an AGM for sure!
ha.
tom

 

[Archivist Engineer]

I think I used the wrong words... I was told that the battery was a hybrid? or some other word that indicated it was neither pure flooded nor pure AGM. A pretty close examination of the labels ends up telling me nothing more.
A search for battery type of the factory BHEF-48H6 indicated it was a standard FLA, and the dealer supplied replacement, the BAGM-48H6-750 is AGM.
Actually, one source, O'Reilly indicated the BAGM was flooded....
The battery industry seems to provide conflicting or rather nebulous descriptions depending on who you ask.
Now, I am officially on the verge of confusion, but that may be the norm these days.
I have turned off the modem/WiFi as the battery will not retain a charge without sending out a warning that it was turning off stuff to save the battery for starting... within a week of a full charge.
Parked in an airport parking lot for a 10-day stay somewhere could be 'interesting'. Sadly. My old Sable with whatever was on sale under the hood started reliably in the middle of January in ATL after two weeks away. I dunno if the Mav could perform as well.
Just noted the designation of the dealer replacement... right there in front of eyeballs - BAGM - the AGM being right there... maybe it is an AGM for sure!
ha.
tom

It sounds like you actually have a good dealer. Also every other thread I've seen dealerships have been very resistant to replace the battery and if they will, they'll only replace it with a replacement stock flooded, so you're ahead of the game there.

If you're still having issues, I think you'd be looking for phantom loads when the truck is off and/or bumping up the charge level.

 

[grumpyunk]

Imay have confused things. My battery is original. It regulaly(almost all the time, even after 1,000 mile freeway trips) will have its charge so low the AutoSS will be disabled.
When I took it to the dealer, it was 'in great shape'. That was a coupl months after purchase. It still does the same thing, and I get FordPass notices that everything has been put to sleep to save the battery as the charge level is too low.
It is the factory OEM, the FLA battery noted. A Ford dealer when I checked noted the AGM version is the preferred replacement for the FLA that is factory. I do not know of the FLA is even dealer available.
They did me no favors. Same battery, same problem. I have manually attached a 110V charger while parked as the voltage was dropping below 12.4 and I want the battery to last.
I will search for how to set the SOC target using FORSCAN, if possible. I looked at the 'master' page, but I have no clue as to what it means as far as changing settings.
Fun, right?
tom

 

[Nw_adventure]

Maybe in your EcoBoost but my 2022 EcoBoost has the enhanced flooded battery

Yeah my 22 - Eco came with a flooded battery. Replaced under warranty with an AGM and that one died as well. Now on my 3rd battery (AGM) and everything has been fine for the last 9 months.

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