Air Filter - Trash Talk

[Superg0]

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[fossil]

K&N are marketing experts - their slickly worded ads are a lawyer's delight! Deciphering the marketing speak vetted by their lawyers:
Bottom line is they don't actually guarantee more power, and they don't actually filter particulates as well, compared to a stock filter. Why would you want to use one again?
K&N filters were born in the dusty off road racing scene where silt would clog filters and stop engines. K&N filters didn't stop the silt they bypassed it for the engines to digest.

Oh yeah, the marketing guys also say you can clean it and spray oil on it and re-use it - which is true, but the K&N oil can coat and clog sensors downstream of the filter, causing check engine lights and rough running. Meanwhile polluting the environment with mineral oil and solvents going down the drain. Paper filters aren't all that expensive, actually filter out dust and particulates, don't damage sensors, and make as much power as a K&N filter in stock engines.

For those, and I know you're out there, that think Dawn dish soap and motor oil is a good $$ replacement for a $20 K&N recharge kit you might as well run without any filter at all.

Back to why would you want to use an expensive K&N air filter that passes more dust to combine with the crankcase blow-by (water vapor and/or oil vapor) and coke up your intake valves faster.

 

[22Lariat]

I used k&n for years. They allow better flow by way of larger pores. The increase in hp is negligible. I've evolved to prefer better/tighter particulate filtration over greater air flow. Especially in today's turbo engines. They're more sensitive to debris, and automatically adjust fuel mixture. It's common knowledge today that k&n filters may be "ok", but aren't as efficient at filtering as some others.

 

[The-X]

I got a KN for my Xmax because it's really really hard to find parts even simple stuff for it. So I got the KN so I don't have to hunt for filters again. The last time it took me months to find one in stock.

I don't really forsee the Mav having trouble getting parts. It's practically the model T of today or getting there at least. So finding a filter won't be an impossible logistics chore

 

[Tiger Dude]

Just pointing out that on a hybrid, well, lol, what's the point, & on the EB, at wide open throttle (WOT) your limiter of airflow is the turbo pressure setting, not your intake air filter. An open filter might make it louder is about it. Below WOT, the limit is the throttle, so a less restrictive air filter won't help mpg either.

 

[Montana]

Stock filters. Watch ProjectFarms testing videos and that's all you need to know.

 

[The Real Maverick]

K&N 250,000 miles in a Ford Escape Hybrid.

K&N 211,000 miles in a Dodge Dakota.

K&N 289,000 miles in a Buick Century.

Did I Baja Race any off them, no.
Did the engines get harmed in any of them, no.
Did I get more horsepower or MPG? No.

Did I save money overall, yes.
Did I send less trash to the landfill, yes.
Did I save trips to the store or dealer, yes.

Maverick still has the factory filter. I have not decided what goes in next.

 

[S Dundee]

So our new testing standard is a light and internet test? Not a standard sae like every other automotive product. Even towing has a sae test.
Again I have zero issues with anyone running anything that makes them comfortable. It’s not my stuff and I make zero money when that product sells.
But nobody including myself learns anything or gains any knowledge without standardized tests. It would be like comparing dyno numbers with zero standards.
For me it comes down to the sae test, and my personal experience with many vehicles over more miles than most will ever drive.

The point is that the media is so poor you can see the imperfections with the naked eye. I had used them on motorcycles, and stopped, because dirt was clearly getting past the filter (exactly as described by another user) and into the clean side of the air box. With a motorcycle, it is time consuming in many cases to get to the air box so you need a filter that you don't need to check on. I went back to the OEM paper filter. There are many analyses online. Project Farm, as an example, has an interesting one using standard size particulate matter similar to SAE.

 

[Old_Norm]

Charmin

As long as you don't squeeze it.

 

[Snox801]

This may be the only comprehensive comparison of different filters using ISO 5011. Most tests are run individually against standards. Even tho it's older, I think the data is relevant. I'd be curious to see if anyone has reference to a newer version of this type test? I have not been able to locate any.

https://ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/KN-test.pdf

The data is still relevant. That’s the same one I found.
What you notice is that Kn even though rated lower on that test than others still past all the standards of efficiency.
So we have only to lab rated test to go by. Even though some have stated they are all over the internet machine. So two is all I could find. One shows higher rating sae than the other but both tests show they past the efficiency test standards.
So all this talk of “i can see through the huge holes?” Is nonsense. That’s the same people that chose a brand of oil and say. When I drain it I can feel it’s more slippery than brand x.

 

[Snox801]

I used k&n for years. They allow better flow by way of larger pores. The increase in hp is negligible. I've evolved to prefer better/tighter particulate filtration over greater air flow. Especially in today's turbo engines. They're more sensitive to debris, and automatically adjust fuel mixture. It's common knowledge today that k&n filters may be "ok", but aren't as efficient at filtering as some others.

I could get behind this line of thought. I think my point is more. Even if they would let more dust through. If they pass the standards set by every manufacturer and sae then why would it matter. Seems those standards are for a reason. Couple that with the fact that we have many many examples of very high mileage vehicles and I think it demonstrates how they actually do work.
Now let’s say they do let more through but pass the test. Now me personally have had many go well over 300k and a few over 350/400k. Not a single one I’ve got rid of was because the engine was the issue. The rest of the truck and vehicle just failed. Vehicles eventually wear out and at some point get to be a game of chase the problem.

 

[OleFordGuy]

well for me I'll stick with the oem motorcraft air filter as 1st choice, 2nd choice would be WIX.

 

[Gonzo chris]

It's been awhile and I figured we all need another Air filter thread - LoL -

Anyways I am @ 17k and the OEM filter is pretty dusty. Always been a KN fan but seems most folks are just not into that anymore.

What filter are the cool kids using these days ?

Cheers -

I know others have already said it but I used to use k&n but I stopped due to all the evidence that the reason they make whatever extra power they do, assuming the filter was a bottleneck, is due to them not filtering as well . So if it's a performance car that you're racing in every 10th matters then I would say go for it. But if it's a free car you're keeping I would put a higher quality paper filter in or just stick with the factory. There's lots of YouTube videos testing different filters to give you an idea which ones filter well while not being too restrictive

 

[Snox801]

I know others have already said it but I used to use k&n but I stopped due to all the evidence that the reason they make whatever extra power they do, assuming the filter was a bottleneck, is due to them not filtering as well . So if it's a performance car that you're racing in every 10th matters then I would say go for it. But if it's a free car you're keeping I would put a higher quality paper filter in or just stick with the factory. There's lots of YouTube videos testing different filters to give you an idea which ones filter well while not being too restrictive

But Chris what about the environment?
. It’s reusable. I expected better from you.
LOL

 

[Gonzo chris]

But Chris what about the environment?
. It’s reusable. I expected better from you.
LOL

Well, that wasn't the discussion. What is best for me or my personal situation? It might be worse for you and the environment. But I know you were kidding. I'm not sure if it's better. I had one in my one car that I recently took out because I'm thinking about selling it, but overall it's probably worse. First of all, it requires oil and cleaner which probably aren't good for the environment, the engine could be likely to wear out quicker, which is bad for the environment and the paper filter might be mostly biodegradable...... I mean the other option could be to just take the filter out all together or drill a 2-in hole in the middle of it with a hole saw. Probably get a few extra horsepower like that.

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