$4200 Less For Hybrid vs. 2.0 @ 120,000 miles

[Rob Cactus Gray]

Of course you would deduct those costs. TCO includes everything.

Total costs of ownership and fuel costs are two different things. Simply subtracting the battery from fuel savings implies that all else is equal. Obviously this is not the case and would give you a screwed result. Yes, the TCO would give the clearest picture but knowing that ahead of time with high accuracy is impossible.

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[Decayed]

Total costs of ownership and fuel costs are two different things. Simply subtracting the battery from fuel savings implies that all else is equal. Obviously this is not the case and would give you a screwed result. Yes, the TCO would give the clearest picture but knowing that ahead of time with high accuracy is impossible.

How is fuel cost not part of ownership?

 

[Arukoru]

How is fuel cost not part of ownership?

Also just to tack onto this: speculating things like battery replacement (which we can have an educated guess on but no exact number) aren't helpful because let's say the battery lasts 8 years and the ecoboost needs a new turbo in 6 years. We're just speculating at this point

 

[Decayed]

Also just to tack onto this: speculating things like battery replacement (which we can have an educated guess on but no exact number) aren't helpful because let's say the battery lasts 8 years and the ecoboost needs a new turbo in 6 years. We're just speculating at this point

Of course. It will take a few years before we really know how much it costs to own and run these. I expect the hybrid to be significantly cheaper at least for the first, say, 5 years. Once you get up around 5 years/100k miles is when things start going wrong in my experience.

What's great is that new cars these days are amazingly reliable compared to how they were back in 60's and 70's or even the 80's. You can pretty much expect the first 100k miles to be generally trouble free so long as you don't beat on it and maintain it properly.

 

[Rob Cactus Gray]

How is fuel cost not part of ownership?

Fuel cost is part of ownership as is the battery. I didn’t say either wasn’t part of ownership. This post was looking at fuel costs as an individual line item not as the total cost of ownership. IE: a tire is part of a car but isn’t a car.

Hypothetical example

I’ve done a poor job original statement “subtract hybrid battery from fuel savings” is incorrect and misses any other benefits from the hybrid battery.

hybrid
Fuel savings $5,000
Battery cost -$2,000
Total savings $3,000

TCO is calculated by adding all costs together not looking at any one item as “savings”. Looking at estimated TCO when shopping makes a lot of since.

compelte example with made up numbers

Depreciation $12,000
fuel costs $7,000
Battery $2,000
Brakes $300
Fuel pumps $800
Lights $60
Washer blades $100
Oil changes $600

based on your replies thus far I’m sure you already knew this. But after my miss communication I needed to explain my self better.

 

[Decayed]

Fuel cost is part of ownership as is the battery. I didn’t say either wasn’t part of ownership. This post was looking at fuel costs as an individual line item not as the total cost of ownership. IE: a tire is part of a car but isn’t a car.

Hypothetical example

I’ve done a poor job original statement “subtract hybrid battery from fuel savings” is incorrect and misses any other benefits from the hybrid battery.

hybrid
Fuel savings $5,000
Battery cost -$2,000
Total savings $3,000

TCO is calculated by adding all costs together not looking at any one item as “savings”. Looking at estimated TCO when shopping makes a lot of since.

compelte example with made up numbers

Depreciation $12,000
fuel costs $7,000
Battery $2,000
Brakes $300
Fuel pumps $800
Lights $60
Washer blades $100
Oil changes $600

based on your replies thus far I’m sure you already knew this. But after my miss communication I needed to explain my self better.

No worries and I get what you are saying. Like I said, I think the hybrid is going to be cheaper to own over the long term. We could get surprised and it could turn out to less savings than we think, but if you trade it in after about 5 years (i.e. before the warranty expires) it looks like a slam dunk.

I am used to owing mazdas and toyotas which are generally extremely reliable. Hopefully the maverick turns out to be as reliable no matter which model you own.

 

[Rob Cactus Gray]

No worries and I get what you are saying. Like I said, I think the hybrid is going to be cheaper to own over the long term. We could get surprised and it could turn out to less savings than we think, but if you trade it in after about 5 years (i.e. before the warranty expires) it looks like a slam dunk.

I am used to owing mazdas and toyotas which are generally extremely reliable. Hopefully the maverick turns out to be as reliable no matter which model you own.

I have owned a mix bag of vehicles; Dodge, Chrysler, Nissan, Kia, Toyota, and Ford. Never had an issue with my Ford but only owned it for 18k miles. The rest I had for a fair while and each had their issues. The Toyota Prius is my current car and it’s a junker. I agree with you completely on the hybrid. If we budget a couple hundred a year for repairs on the Hybrid we will have money left over. I currently plan to keep the truck for 10 plus years.

If I’m wrong and something big ($5k) does go out In still ahead of a RAV4 in cost. I see the maverick as in a value class of its own. Hopefully that holds true and we will all say it in a few years.

 

[icegradner]

Assuming the platform is good and the parts aren't junk the Hybrid could be very cheap to run. On my 14 year old Hybrid, nothing but oil, brakes and tires in the last 6 years, I did get new sparkplugs at 120k miles, they were the originals. Of course it's a Camry, so, that might not be a good thing to compare to. YMMV.

 

[Decayed]

I have owned a mix bag of vehicles; Dodge, Chrysler, Nissan, Kia, Toyota, and Ford. Never had an issue with my Ford but only owned it for 18k miles. The rest I had for a fair while and each had their issues. The Toyota Prius is my current car and it’s a junker. I agree with you completely on the hybrid. If we budget a couple hundred a year for repairs on the Hybrid we will have money left over. I currently plan to keep the truck for 10 plus years.

If I’m wrong and something big ($5k) does go out In still ahead of a RAV4 in cost. I see the maverick as in a value class of its own. Hopefully that holds true and we will all say it in a few years.

My only previous experience with a ford was a mid 90s wagon that left me stranded on a tiny shoulder of a very busy highway with my 1 year old twins in back. Needless to say it left a bad taste in my mouth for the brand for decades. Bad motors that had a recall. I was able to get it fixed but traded it right after.

Given that the mav is an off the shelf drivetrain that has been reasonably reliable and it's exactly what I wanted it's worth the risk of buying a first model year.

 

[A_Turkey_Sammich]

I dunno why so many are hung up trying to throw a dollar amount or value on one drivetrain or the other. No question hybrid should be overall lowest short term, but long term there are just too many unknowns, especially these days with things beyond the vehicle itself to try and put a dollar amount or specific difference on.

then you gotta be real with how long your gunna keep the car. long term operating costs and cost differences shouldn’t matter to a short term buyer. Like who cares how things like that stack up in 10-15yrs, or how much a battery or turbo change is likely or would hurt in the mix, etc if your only going to keep it a few years. While plenty of people have older vehicles, most getting around that age and beyond aren’t still 1 owner anymore.

 

[JCH841]

Hybrids usually have longer oil/filter changes due to the engine only running part time, so that's another savings. Based on experience with a friend's hybrid Mercury Mariner (Ford Escape) which is the basis for the Maverick powertrain.

 

[Fotomoto]

but your battery is only warrantied for 100,000 miles so if it has to be replaced after that, you have eaten up most or all of that savings.

Depending upon the state (CARB) and manufacturer, hybrid batteries are often warranted for 10 years/ 150k miles. Moving forward, ALL Toyota hybrids will carry the 10/150k tier. It's my hope others (cough, looking at you FORD, cough) will match or even beat that high bar very soon.

 

[imboden013]

I've calculated that considering fuel, upfront cost, and interest/opportunity cost, the hybrid is likely to save an owner about $10-15K over 10 years of ownership compared to the AWD EB. So, about $100/mo.

You must be planning on driving 300,000 miles or more in that 10 years. I drive 12K or less a year so I went with the AWD and I'm averaging 30+ mpg so It would take me forever to save $10-$15K in fuel costs.

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