Ford delays new EV pickup to 2027

[ndmiller]

I think the problem is that electrics are over luxuried and over priced.

With no ICE, single modest electric motor, and modest battery size, they should be cheap. I don’t want a $60,000+ vehicle, EV or not.

Give me a $25,000 electric Maverick. I don’t care if the range is only a couple of hundred miles. It won’t be for everyone. But for those of us that can recharge at home, and seldom take long trips, it would be perfect.

Maybe, but Ford's problem is 100% on Ford, not Ford's customers.. They introduced the F150 lightning to huge fanfare with over a couple hundred thousand reservations. People wanted what they introduced including myself, not a pickup truck guy. Then a year went by and they could only produce 25K per year, then the 50K version wasn't available, only the 92K platinum could be ordered. If they executed under the release communication they would have made and sold a quarter million of them. 2022-2023 the number is under 50K. This wan't a demand problem or a slowing of EV sales, it was Fords lack of execution that made the lightning fail. This is why they are delaying because of their inability to execute on a vehicle customers want. Same thing happened with Mach-E, Bronco's, and Mavericks customers couldn't get them as production was too low and prices skyrocketed.

EV's are still a ways off for major acceptance. But Hybrids? They are winning now. Sales went up 53% in 2023 over 2022. We can expect even more Hybrid sales this year. I'd say within 5 more years (end of the decade), Hybrids will eclipse ICE vehicle sales. It may take another 10 years before EV's are a major player in the US. https://www.morningstar.com/news/ma...rs-say-americans-are-going-all-in-for-hybrids

EV's that are styled to customer wants and needs are being accepted. The problem is most EV are not vehicles customers would buy regardless of the powertrain. Hybrids are styled like ICE vehicles not spaceships from another planet with wonky interiors and switchgear or lack of switches all together. Starts with design. Does the customer want it. If so make it run on squid ink and sarcasm the customer will buy it all day long.

Sponsored

 

[bbhaag]

I always enjoy threads like this. The pros and cons of EVs are always discussed by arm chair enthusiasts who haven't even driven one let alone owned one. They let the media drive their biases.

 

[Blinky]

I think the problem is that electrics are over luxuried and over priced.

With no ICE, single modest electric motor, and modest battery size, they should be cheap. I don’t want a $60,000+ vehicle, EV or not.

Give me a $25,000 electric Maverick. I don’t care if the range is only a couple of hundred miles. It won’t be for everyone. But for those of us that can recharge at home, and seldom take long trips, it would be perfect.

The problem is that people don't want a short range EV because if you can't charge at home (like most apartment or condo dwellers) then charging every 1-2 days is hugely inconvenient. I bet range anxiety and charging concerns, not price, are the main holdbacks for potential EV buyers, I know they sure are for me.

I'm interested in EVs and they'd suit 90% of my driving right down to a T but when I need to make a road trip suddenly the fecal matter hits the rotating air movement device because there is jack squat for charging outside of my metro area. The nearest chargers in any cardinal direction about about 60-100 miles out and almost exclusively level 2 junk.
It's 200 miles south before you run into another major city with a decent number of level 3 chargers.

Buying a fancy $50,000+ roomba and still having to own, borrow or rent a second car just to make a road trip is not compatible with most people's lifestyle.

It's kind of sad that BEVs have become such a hateful topic, sort of a sociopolitical tribal warfare kind of thing. They're just machines guys. Buy the one that makes you happy and park it in your garage.

I saw the articles this morning, and I made a bet with myself that the first new venom-filled MTC BEV thread would be going strong within the hour. Yup, check that one off.

Agreed, it's pretty sad how negative "car people" tend to be about something new and potentially exciting.
I like the idea of an EV but as mentioned above, they just ain't quite practical enough for me yet. I foresee an EV or some kind of plug in roomba as my next vehicle, maybe 4-5 years down the road.

 

[A Sturdy Beast]

The problem is that people don't want a short range EV because if you can't charge at home (like most apartment or condo dwellers) then charging every 1-2 days is hugely inconvenient. I bet range anxiety and charging concerns, not price, are the main holdbacks for potential EV buyers, I know they sure are for me.

That’s what I meant when I said it won’t be for everyone. A cheap short range EV will be good for people with an average or shorter than average commute, a second vehicle for road trips (or being willing to rent one occasionally), and the ability to charge at home. If you don’t fit that profile, you’re right, a short range EV would be a path to buyer’s remorse.

The US home ownership rate is 65%, so most people should be able to charge at home. That 65% would include condos and people with street parking so I’d guess at least 50% could charge at home. Plus people renting houses could charge at home, which would not be included in that 65%.

Small pick ups aren’t for everyone. Many need the higher load and towing capacity and off road ability. In fact for years small trucks were in the “nobody wants one” category. But here we are, all that had to happen was for Ford to make a pick up that allegedly no one wants. They still aren’t for everyone, but Ford can’t make Mavericks fast enough. I think the same thing would happen with a cheap short range EV.

 

[Snox801]

I think we will see the ecoboost dropped eventually from the Maverick and it will be only hybrid. I'm actually surprised they didn't drop it for the refresh now that the hybrid has AWD and the 4k tow package.

Nope why would they alienate half the sales. I just wouldn’t buy one. I like some I like my vehicles to have some feeling or some aspect of them I really like for pure driver satisfaction.
None of that happens with the hybrid. It does with the ecoboost. I’d be much more tempted to go plug in electric for my around town than a hybrid. They just lack soul. Well and lots of power compare to the ecoboost.

 

[ndmiller]

That’s what I meant when I said it won’t be for everyone. A cheap short range EV will be good for people with an average or shorter than average commute, a second vehicle for road trips (or being willing to rent one occasionally), and the ability to charge at home. If you don’t fit that profile, you’re right, a short range EV would be a path to buyer’s remorse.

100% agree. I bought a Rivian R1T with 351 mile range after Ford screwed up the Lightning launch. I charge to 70% 252 miles and drive about 25 miles/week. Realistically I could have bought the 250 or 270 mile version based on my normal week. On the other hand I can get to Orlando with just one 30 minute charging stop.

 

[Snox801]

It's kind of sad that BEVs have become such a hateful topic, sort of a sociopolitical tribal warfare kind of thing. They're just machines guys. Buy the one that makes you happy and park it in your garage.

I saw the articles this morning, and I made a bet with myself that the first new venom-filled MTC BEV thread would be going strong within the hour. Yup, check that one off.

It’s hard to not be tribal. To me it’s not the fact that it one machine vs the other. It is the massive push and force the government is trying to do. Will ev’s be very useful in the future. Yes. But trying to mandate them in faster than the tech or grid can keep up is what I don’t like. They simply won’t fit my life at the moment. I never say never. But I think that both ice and batteries will advance and one will out shine the other. But the fact that ice tech has made such great advances in the last ten years is proof they may be the future still. The fact my full size 150 can get 30mpg and my maverick much higher would have been laughed at 10 years ago.

 

[Gonzo chris]

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2024/08/21/Ford-EV-truck-delayed/8071724248583/

Still no official word on whether it would be a full electric Maverick, Ranger, or something else.

Id prefer Maverick

 

[Gonzo chris]

Also cancelled EV Explorer. Doubling down on HEV/PHEV. Non-Tesla EV market is likely saturated at this point.

Not saturated. Even in the US the market share is growing YOY just not growing as fast as expected. Hyundai/ Kia are growing at a high rate in the RV segment

 

[Gonzo chris]

EV sales are tanking. The early adopter pool has dried up. Hertz has dumped it's rental fleet.
People have finally figured it out.

Sure

 

[Gonzo chris]

It's kind of sad that BEVs have become such a hateful topic, sort of a sociopolitical tribal warfare kind of thing. They're just machines guys. Buy the one that makes you happy and park it in your garage.

I saw the articles this morning, and I made a bet with myself that the first new venom-filled MTC BEV thread would be going strong within the hour. Yup, check that one off.

Old dudes, cable news......

 

[SLINGSHOT]

Five years from now, my hybrid Mav and my 2017 RAV4 will still be worth money. A five year old EV and a twelve year old EV will be hard to give away.

 

[Gonzo chris]

Not surprising. The majority of people that were/are going to adopt EVs, in their current state, have done so. With some exceptions in countries that have governmentally gone all-in on EVs.

Using Tesla as an example, instead of innovating while they had a dominant lead, they just sat on their hands and let their product stagnate. A model S today is functionally and aesthetically the same car as it was 10 years ago. Not to mention the brand damage Musk as caused by alienating his core customer base. Something I only mention because Tesla has become synonymous with "EV" and any bad look with them reflects.

Meanwhile, the other auto manufacturers spent their time arguing with each other about EV viability. Toyota took their ball and went home, built a hydrogen vehicle, and then cried when no one wanted to play.

We effectively lost 10 years of development on EV technologies, mainly battery and charging technologies. Which, until both of those are solved, EVs will continue to be a luxury for urban people.



As of June of this year Bank of America stated that EV adoption rates for 2024 are sitting around 6.8% while in 2023 it was about 7.5%. The forecast for 2024 was 10%, we are way off from that.

In an ultra-capitalistic society this is viewed as "tanking" because, "Line no go up."

edit:

If you look where EV adoption is increasing in the USA it is almost exclusively California. In specific areas and with a specific demographic. If you look at the more rural areas it is reversing.

People fixate in Tesla, junk imo, too much . Companies like Hyundai are making massive strides in EV sales. Has the US government gone "all in" ?
https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/electric-vehicle-statistics-2024/#:~:text=EV sales in the U.S.,global markets in EV sales.
EVs are for suburban people not urban

 

[Gonzo chris]

To be clear, I am not anti-EV. But I think the industry has some ways to go before the average consumer will accept them, similar to the hybrid.

I saw a review of the new VW Bus EV. One thing that killed it is the range. Just 250 miles on a vehicle that is obviously made for long-distance travel. My 4K-EB Maverick averages roughly 400 miles a tank. In my opinion, the range of an EV needs to be 350-400 miles, minimum. Offering anything less than that on a vehicle that is meant for traveling is simply not acceptable.

And I get it. 250 miles is 3-4 hours of driving and even I will want a break. But until the EV charging infrastructure matures, 250 is just too low. Until I can just mindlessly get on the road without having to plan charging stops, it will be a tough sell.

I also think it is time for the government to come up with a standard for measuring range as driving at highway speeds in the summer heat with an a/c blowing will undoubtedly impact range more than driving in a city in the spring.

I think the PHEV and XR-PHEV approach will be how consumers eventually get into the electric game. It provides the benefit of electric with the convenience of gas.

Love the new VW bus but too expensive for the range

 

[Gonzo chris]

It’s hard to not be tribal. To me it’s not the fact that it one machine vs the other. It is the massive push and force the government is trying to do. Will ev’s be very useful in the future. Yes. But trying to mandate them in faster than the tech or grid can keep up is what I don’t like. They simply won’t fit my life at the moment. I never say never. But I think that both ice and batteries will advance and one will out shine the other. But the fact that ice tech has made such great advances in the last ten years is proof they may be the future still. The fact my full size 150 can get 30mpg and my maverick much higher would have been laughed at 10 years ago.

Chicken or egg. Maybe we should just get rid of the government and all do whatever we want. Nobody is forcing you. But what you want. An incentive isn't a mandate. Grid won't increase capacity without the anticipated demand. People say they won't but EVs without grid improvements.
The vast majority of ICE efficiency gains have nothing to do with the ice and due to a hybrid having a battery.
Yes for the hundredth time not quite there for your use but the vast majority don't have yours. If you're being honest they'll never be good enough for you. 1,000 mile range and charged in 2 minutes won't be good enough. Everything thing the government enacts is mandated from income taxes, speed limits, contract law, no littering, no child marriage ( well most states....)

Sponsored