How did Ford screw this up?

[APD]

Ok throughout all history of car sales, vehicles have been offered with a "standard" or "base" model set of features.
The "standard" generally represents the cheapest/easiest to build version, upon which other options are added to, at greater cost/complexity.
For these reasons, it is generally accepted that this will be the top seller, or at least the most built version which can easily be further optioned/upgraded to XLT, Lariat, etc.

The maverick "standard" or "base" model is the HYBRID XL.
Adding ecoboost, AWD, Lariat, etc. costs the customer thousands more dollars. A significant cost increase on a $21k vehicle.

Looking at the numbers for both last year and this year, they got it COMPLETELY BACKWARDS!
They received orders of approximately 2/3 Hybrids and 1/3 EB....exactly what one would expect.
And yet they can produce the exact opposite: approx. 1/3 Hybrid and 2/3 EB

How did they get it so wrong?

If they would just issue a statement saying something like "we cant produce enough batteries to fulfill hybrid demand" it would be more understandable, as that is a part unique to hybrid models. But I haven't seen anything like that, maybe I missed it.
Offering a base model that is 'harder' to build than an optioned one is just backward to me.

Are the escape hybrids also having this same difficulty in being built?
The fact that they can build twice as many EB's leads one to believe that there is some constraint on the hybrid building process. What is it? Why was it offered as the standard?

I absolutely acknowledge that it is a new model and there are lots of production problems to be worked out in the first year or two...but still the standard model should be easiest to produce and where all that problem solving should be focused. I have hard time accepting that they just "underestimated demand" for the hybrid, because they chose the hybrid to be the standard model.....meaning they expected to sell a lot of them. If people want a small 4 cyl gas pickup, there are several other options available.

Enough ranting, any thoughts?

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[jsus]

Are the escape hybrids also having this same difficulty in being built?

Yes. They are. Plug-in hybrid Escapes even more so - about year wait in cases; they're building very few of those..

My Escape Hybrid took over 7 months from order to delivery, whereas had I stuck with the 1.5L EB, I'd have easily had it in half that. Or could've found one off the lot with enough work. Some have been waiting even longer than that and still don't have theirs.

 

[Pickles]

Decent rant. More reasonable than many. Couple things: Why do think that something cheaper is always simpler/easier to build? The parts are cheaper… therefore the vehicle is cheaper. However, the pats also happen to be harder to come by. Combine these two things and you have the answer to all your questions from a business perspective. Think about it from your internal ceo mind lol

-You can make more money off of every eco you build
-you have The ability to make more ecos than hybrids based on supply constraints
-you can make more money off of producing other electric/hybrid vehicles under your umbrella (aka non-maverick)

which orders do you believe will be fulfilled first? lol theyll always mix in enough hybrid builds to keep people interested, but cmon. Its just math. I mean you can lose your mind about big bad ford not caring about their customers but whats the point lol theyre no different from every big company. Just gotta learn their system, and see if theres a way you can benefit from some aspect of it. Which for some in this case means… order an eco along with your hybrid lol and flip your eco if your hybrid ever gets built Naturally its not that simple for most, and im coming from the perspective of someone who didnt want this hybrid anyways. But i think its an acurate assessment of the situation.

also listing hybrid as a constraint item is a political way of saying: we dont have enough stuff (the word you used was batteries) to build all these hybrids.

 

[KevCuRaoi]

Ok throughout all history of car sales, vehicles have been offered with a "standard" or "base" model set of features.
The "standard" generally represents the cheapest/easiest to build version, upon which other options are added to, at greater cost/complexity.
For these reasons, it is generally accepted that this will be the top seller, or at least the most built version which can easily be further optioned/upgraded to XLT, Lariat, etc.

The maverick "standard" or "base" model is the HYBRID XL.
Adding ecoboost, AWD, Lariat, etc. costs the customer thousands more dollars. A significant cost increase on a $21k vehicle.

Looking at the numbers for both last year and this year, they got it COMPLETELY BACKWARDS!
They received orders of approximately 2/3 Hybrids and 1/3 EB....exactly what one would expect.
And yet they can produce the exact opposite: approx. 1/3 Hybrid and 2/3 EB

How did they get it so wrong?

If they would just issue a statement saying something like "we cant produce enough batteries to fulfill hybrid demand" it would be more understandable, as that is a part unique to hybrid models. But I haven't seen anything like that, maybe I missed it.
Offering a base model that is 'harder' to build than an optioned one is just backward to me.

Are the escape hybrids also having this same difficulty in being built?
The fact that they can build twice as many EB's leads one to believe that there is some constraint on the hybrid building process. What is it? Why was it offered as the standard?

I absolutely acknowledge that it is a new model and there are lots of production problems to be worked out in the first year or two...but still the standard model should be easiest to produce and where all that problem solving should be focused. I have hard time accepting that they just "underestimated demand" for the hybrid, because they chose the hybrid to be the standard model.....meaning they expected to sell a lot of them. If people want a small 4 cyl gas pickup, there are several other options available.

Enough ranting, any thoughts?

Ford certainly underestimated the demand for hybrids (even before Russia's invasion of Ukraine cause the spike in fuel prices which has caused hybrid demand to skyrocket).

But, base models are not usually the most popular sellers. Look at F-150s, the base engine is the least popular. XLTs and Lariats are much more popular than XLs.

Even if hybrids weren't the standard option, there would still be strong demand for them.

It has always been difficult to get PHEV Escape. Regular hybrid Escapes will be more difficult to get in 23 than 22.

For 22MY, about 25% of Escapes were hybrids. Looks like that will decrease to more like 15% for 23MY.

The hybrids aren't harder to build. With the push to electric and hybrid vehicles, the raw materials for the high voltage batteries is an issue.

But for the Maverick (and likely Escape too), I've heard that the hybrid transaxle (i.e. the eCVT transmission) that is causing the biggest holdup. They aren't able to get/produce enough of those (for what reason, I do not know!) to meet the hybrid demand.

 

[Old Ranchero]

Ok throughout all history of car sales, vehicles have been offered with a "standard" or "base" model set of features.
The "standard" generally represents the cheapest/easiest to build version, upon which other options are added to, at greater cost/complexity.
For these reasons, it is generally accepted that this will be the top seller, or at least the most built version which can easily be further optioned/upgraded to XLT, Lariat, etc.

The maverick "standard" or "base" model is the HYBRID XL.
Adding ecoboost, AWD, Lariat, etc. costs the customer thousands more dollars. A significant cost increase on a $21k vehicle.

Looking at the numbers for both last year and this year, they got it COMPLETELY BACKWARDS!
They received orders of approximately 2/3 Hybrids and 1/3 EB....exactly what one would expect.
And yet they can produce the exact opposite: approx. 1/3 Hybrid and 2/3 EB

How did they get it so wrong?

If they would just issue a statement saying something like "we cant produce enough batteries to fulfill hybrid demand" it would be more understandable, as that is a part unique to hybrid models. But I haven't seen anything like that, maybe I missed it.
Offering a base model that is 'harder' to build than an optioned one is just backward to me.

Are the escape hybrids also having this same difficulty in being built?
The fact that they can build twice as many EB's leads one to believe that there is some constraint on the hybrid building process. What is it? Why was it offered as the standard?

I absolutely acknowledge that it is a new model and there are lots of production problems to be worked out in the first year or two...but still the standard model should be easiest to produce and where all that problem solving should be focused. I have hard time accepting that they just "underestimated demand" for the hybrid, because they chose the hybrid to be the standard model.....meaning they expected to sell a lot of them. If people want a small 4 cyl gas pickup, there are several other options available.

Enough ranting, any thoughts?

Have you ever heard of a "Loss Leader"? How about a "Hero" product" "Flagship model"? Instead of looking at order mix, look at demographics sales figures. Ford announced far and wide a few years ago they would no longer build and sell passenger cars to the North American market. That left a huge hole in their lineup they call "white space" with no entry level vehicles below $20k to get people into dealerships and the Ford family. The "base" Maverick was the answer. They also kept watch on the COMPACT truck market that disappeared with last Rangers while all former compacts became mid-size and far larger and more expensive. Nobody was in that space in the United States and Canada- so there was an opening- for a compact- but it also carried huge ri$k if this product had no demand and flopped. They were also tasked with casting as wide a net as possible for new categories of buyer's that weren't necessarily "truck" people and Maverick had to have enough appeal to hook enough of the other categories to succeed. It's a Jack Of All Trades, Master Of None compromise vehicle. It has succeeded in most their goals.

What you need to understand is not EVERYBODY wants hybrids, PHEVs, BEVs, and there are NOT any COMPACT gas trucks available to compete with Maverick. Personally, I would not have considered it without the 2.0L engine option, real transmission, AWD, 4K tow package and there are many more like me. MPG and tech are not even in my top 5 reasons for purchasing. You may not have noticed but for MY2023 the ECOboost engine is now the same price as the hybrid. Considering all the financial risks and economic/supply hurdles Ford faced here bringing this to market, IMO they did quite the opposite of screwing this up and selling out projected sales volume both years is proof of that.

 

[APD]

Decent rant. More reasonable than many. Couple things: Why do think that something cheaper is always simpler/easier to build? The parts are cheaper… therefore the vehicle is cheaper.

Because in general it is true. Unless they are intentionally selling cars at loss. The cost to build is reflected in the final price. There are always exceptions. Also I was using the word "easier" to mean "able to be produced"

However, the pats also happen to be harder to come by. Combine these two things and you have the answer to all your questions from a business perspective.

Agreed, so its a part shortage that they underestimated, not demand? Why would they offer the lowest price on something that is the hardest to get?

-You can make more money off of every eco you build
-you have The ability to make more ecos than hybrids based on supply constraints
-you can make more money off of producing other electric/hybrid vehicles under your umbrella (aka non-maverick)

which orders do you believe will be fulfilled first? lol theyll always mix in enough hybrid builds to keep people interested, but cmon. Its just math.

Of course....I absolutely understand their reaction to the situation, any business is going to prioritize selling what they can produce. But Im asking how did they get into this situation?
The ideal situation for both ford and customers is to have production capabilities match demand. Every customer gets what they want, Ford gets good reputation, and ford doesnt produce anything they cant sell (not a problem in this case).

They simply could have called the EB standard, and made the Hybrid an option from the start, based on an honest assessment of what they could produce at the time. I realize that could be considered just semantics, but it gives the customer the impression that it is an ADDED feature, which is not STANDARD. So we should expect greater delay for this new option/customization that is harder for them produce.

also listing hybrid as a constraint item is a political way of saying: we dont have enough stuff (the word you used was batteries) to build all these hybrids.

Agreed, but it was only considered a constraint long after they started selling them. They sell them as the STANDARD model....Having the standard model as a constraint is like saying "we cant even build the most basic version of this vehicle."

 

[olderbudwiser]

Because in general it is true. Unless they are intentionally selling cars at loss. The cost to build is reflected in the final price. There are always exceptions. Also I was using the word "easier" to mean "able to be produced"


Agreed, so its a part shortage that they underestimated, not demand? Why would they offer the lowest price on something that is the hardest to get?




Of course....I absolutely understand their reaction to the situation, any business is going to prioritize selling what they can produce. But Im asking how did they get into this situation?
The ideal situation for both ford and customers is to have production capabilities match demand. Every customer gets what they want, Ford gets good reputation, and ford doesnt produce anything in they cant sell (not a problem in this case).



Agreed, but it was only considered a constraint long after they started selling them. They sell them as the STANDARD model....Having the standard model as a constraint is like saying "we cant even build the most basic version of this vehicle."

Someone mentioned in a earlier thread about FE. X number of Hybrid Mavericks goes into CAFE helps when building and selling vehicles that don't have the the same numbers.

At that point Ford doesn't care how many as long as it meets the number to affect CAFE numbers.

 

[kingranchero]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/09/ford-needs-ev-batteries-more-than-semiconductor-chips-ceo-says.html

Battery supply has been a problem since before the pandemic. Does not matter FHEV, PHEV, or BEV, raw materials and supplies are difficult to source right now.

 

[APD]

Have you ever heard of a "Loss Leader"? How about a "Hero" product" "Flagship model"? Instead of looking at order mix, look at demographics sales figures. Ford announced far and wide a few years ago they would no longer build and sell passenger cars to the North American market.

Not sure what you mean as there are plenty of ford passenger cars available. I know that they consider the F150 to be flagship, and that has been their focus over the years, but they have not eliminated passengers cars.
Order mix = what people want
Demographic sales figures = what people can actually buy (cant buy a vehicle that isnt produced)

What you need to understand is not EVERYBODY wants hybrids, PHEVs, BEVs,

No, but 2/3 of people do

and there are NOT any COMPACT gas trucks available to compete with Maverick. Personally, I would not have considered it without the 2.0L engine option, real transmission, AWD, 4K tow package and there are many more like me. MPG and tech are not even in my top 5 reasons for purchasing.

Agreed at the maverick price point....which is why they should have expected high demand, and not made the base model something they dont have the ability to produce

You may not have noticed but for MY2023 the ECOboost engine is now the same price as the hybrid.

Yes just noticed this....which is an appropriate reaction to the situation where they oversold something they couldn't produce, and is in agreement with the point I made. By doing this they are essentially making the EB 2wd the standard model, not an optional upgrade.

IMO they did quite the opposite of screwing this up and selling out projected sales volume both years is proof of that.

From Ford's perspective, yes, they created a unique vehicle with high demand. Are you saying Ford doesn't wish it could better meet customer demand for Hybrids and they are perfectly happy with this scenario? Nobody believes that.

But from a customer's perspective it is pretty bad, they are selling lottery tickets, not vehicles.

 

[Last Truck Ever]

"They are selling lottery tickets, not vehicles" may well be the best summation I've heard. Bravo. Seriously.

 

[APD]

These are all passenger cars. Primary purpose is transporting people. Registration in any state would be passenger car. 5 seats and seatbelts. If he meant "sedans", or "compact" that is simply a body style of passenger cars.

 

[APD]

These are all passenger cars. Primary purpose is transporting people. Registration in any state would be passenger car. If he meant "sedans", or "compact" that is simply a body style of passenger cars.

Well ford doesnt call anything a passenger car, so that's meaningless.
"Passenger car" is an EPA/DMV/DOT registration designation, based on primary purpose. "SUV", "Crossover", "Sedan", "Compact", Wagon, "hatchback", etc. Are all body styles OF PASSENGER CARS. look at the registration of any of them

 

[Shakesbear]

I thought for '23 they switched the "base" Maverick to the Ecoboost, thus the higher "Private offer" for Hybrid orders that were moved from 22's to 23's? The '23 order guides show the Ecoboost as the "base" engine.

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