A Detailers Maverick Experience: Thin Paint, Ceramic Coating, Etc.

[Jameson]

While we're waiting for pictures... I received my Maverick on July 11th. Really like the truck. At the same time a friend of mine, ex-coworker also, came into the area to visit accounts in New England. He took over my accounts up here when I retired. We performed an impromptu film build study. My XLT is Iconic silver. We took 61 readings across one whole side, tailgate, hood, bed, and roof. We used his Elcometer 456. This is a $1200 piece of equipment which was recently calibrated, (all equipment carried by a service rep is required to be calibrated). Long story short the average DFT, dry film thickness, was 4.4 mils. with a high of 5.2 and a low of 3.9 mils. These numbers are what I'd expect from the paint job. I've mentioned these numbers before but again, .8 mils for electrocoat, 1 mil for primer. That leaves 2.6 mils for color and clear. Figure 1 - 1.2 mils for color that leaves 1.4 - 1.6 for clear coat. I have no problems with these numbers.
As the Elcometer also reads coatings on non-ferrous substrates I figured let's see what was on the wheels, black FX4 wheels. To my surprise the average DFT was 7.1 mils! I'm assuming these wheels are powder coated and possibly also have a primer.
There you have it. I'm happy with the paint job on my particular vehicle. Time will tell if it is soft, chips, peels, or fades...

Interesting. How does the 4.4 mils compare to other comparably priced vehicles? Is there a standard expected reading for cars these days?

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[19mustang65]

Had a rock chip from being passed on a 2lane road and can confirm the paint is quite thin.

First flaw and pretty bummed. Down to the metal.

 

[Cward]

I wanted to take mine for ceramic coating, but I saw this all over my hood on the first wash after I got it. I can't tell if it's bubbles in the clear coat, or fishyeyes in the paint.
Either way, the hood is being stripped and repainted on 8/15, then off to get the ceramic coating done.

 

[Deleted member 6544]

Interesting. How does the 4.4 mils compare to other comparably priced vehicles? Is there a standard expected reading for cars these days?

Good question and I don't have the answer. I'm been out of the OEM business for 20+ years. But I will do this... MY ex-coworker has a 2021 or 22 Chevy Equinox for a company car. I'll have him take a dozen or so readings and report back.
The numbers I got on my Maverick were numbers I'd expect from 20 years ago. As everyone knows the OEMs are not going to put excessive about of paint on vehicles. It's expensive! At the same time the paint does have to pass several, (salt spray, impact resistance, color, gloss, DOI, weatherability, UV, on & on), performance requirements. If the paint companies, at the insistence of the OEMs, can pass these requirements with less total film they will.

 

[Icanhazmaverick]

@ParagonDetail I'm in the north bay, might have to drive over to Sac to have your shop do my Maverick.

One spot here wants $2075 (+$300 for windows and wheel faces) for a 2 layer "7 year" coating, and $2775 (+$200 windows/wheels) for a 3 layer "9 year" Gtechniq CSU Black coating.
https://pristineautodetail.com/ceramic-coating-pricing/

Another one: "5 year" $1895 (incl windows and wheel faces) or "10 year" coating $2595 plus; once a year maintenance $350.
https://www.autosportdetailing.com/pricing/

These prices seem insane to me. I read through about 10 pages but didn't see your prices - what do you recommend and what is the cost for a Maverick?

 

[LadyMav]

I’m just gonna start by saying that these Mavericks are already head turners when they’re out in the wild… But now this thing straight up is snapping necks.

Finally had the time to detail my truck properly. It was washed, decontaminated and pretty much every surface is now ceramic coated. Paint was in such good shape after washing and prep, that I fortunately didn’t have to do any paint correction. This is rare but shows how taking the proper precautions and making sure your vehicle is in professional hands can save you a lot of time and money. This truck is Ceramic Coated so it’s UV protected, it’s going to stay cleaner for alot longer, it’s going to stay looking glossy and cleaning it is going to be a piece of cake thanks to the low surface energy and high contact angle the ceramic coating provides. This is going to protect my vehicle from things like bird scat, insect acid, hard water, acid rain, road salt and much more.

Here are a few thoughts..

1.) Don’t let your dealer touch the truck. This is going to prevent you from having to pay to fix any scratches/imperfections they administer. This is important because polishing is where you’re going to spend your money at the detail shop.

Warning: these trucks have little to no paint on them.. (more later on)


2.) Find an certified detailer with proper knowledge and experience and don’t let joe shmoe touch your truck. You get what you pay for quite literally in the detailing industry. You can always find someone to do it cheaper, but that’s not necessarily better. You’ll usually end up paying another detailer to fix the first ones mistakes. In this case, not hiring a professional could easily lead to them burning through the little paint you have trying to correct it.


3.)PAINT IS THIN
This is so important. If you or your detailer are going to polish the truck in any way, they NEED to do a paint reading with a paint depth gauge. Paint preservation is most important.
I was shocked at how little clear coat was on certain parts of my truck and had I not taken the right precautions and measured the paint, I’d be in a lot of trouble. Luckily I had no dealer instilled scratches or swirls and I was able to simply wash, carefully decontaminate the paint with an iron remover, sap remove, tar remover and followed up with a careful claybar. No user inflicted marring. Had I not been experienced at this, this would have been a turning point in the project for a lot of people. I’m shocked at how thin the paint is and so thankful I am not busting out the polisher. Below are pictures of the process and what I saw.

4.)Plastic almost appears to have a coating of some sort on it. I ceramic coated mine but it almost didn’t want to take the coating. Hopefully we won’t see fading down the road like we do with most vehicles with this type of exterior surface. Whether your coating it or restoring it down the road, remember these pieces are very porous and get clogged with contamination. It needs to be cleaned properly or you won’t get proper adhesion.

Here are pictures of the process, hope you enjoy.

Before:

After:

Clay After Decon: lots of dirt and grime embedded into the clear coat

Paint After Clay: No visible scratches or marring when done right

Measuring The Paint:

Results: For Reference, you can assume you have about 1.5-2. Mils of base/color coat on a car. 1 Mil is .001 of an inch. For reference, a post it note is 3 Mils thick. So most cars paint is thinner than a post it note. Most new cars have about the same amount of clear coat, sometimes less and sometimes more. After reading as low as 2.28 on some places that’s a sign there is very little to no clear coat on these vehicles.

Coating Time:
Gtechniq CSL Followed By ExoV4

Beyond happy with the results!!!

Hope you enjoy and thanks for reading!!!

 

[LadyMav]

I’m just gonna start by saying that these Mavericks are already head turners when they’re out in the wild… But now this thing straight up is snapping necks.

Finally had the time to detail my truck properly. It was washed, decontaminated and pretty much every surface is now ceramic coated. Paint was in such good shape after washing and prep, that I fortunately didn’t have to do any paint correction. This is rare but shows how taking the proper precautions and making sure your vehicle is in professional hands can save you a lot of time and money. This truck is Ceramic Coated so it’s UV protected, it’s going to stay cleaner for alot longer, it’s going to stay looking glossy and cleaning it is going to be a piece of cake thanks to the low surface energy and high contact angle the ceramic coating provides. This is going to protect my vehicle from things like bird scat, insect acid, hard water, acid rain, road salt and much more.

Here are a few thoughts..

1.) Don’t let your dealer touch the truck. This is going to prevent you from having to pay to fix any scratches/imperfections they administer. This is important because polishing is where you’re going to spend your money at the detail shop.

Warning: these trucks have little to no paint on them.. (more later on)


2.) Find an certified detailer with proper knowledge and experience and don’t let joe shmoe touch your truck. You get what you pay for quite literally in the detailing industry. You can always find someone to do it cheaper, but that’s not necessarily better. You’ll usually end up paying another detailer to fix the first ones mistakes. In this case, not hiring a professional could easily lead to them burning through the little paint you have trying to correct it.


3.)PAINT IS THIN
This is so important. If you or your detailer are going to polish the truck in any way, they NEED to do a paint reading with a paint depth gauge. Paint preservation is most important.
I was shocked at how little clear coat was on certain parts of my truck and had I not taken the right precautions and measured the paint, I’d be in a lot of trouble. Luckily I had no dealer instilled scratches or swirls and I was able to simply wash, carefully decontaminate the paint with an iron remover, sap remove, tar remover and followed up with a careful claybar. No user inflicted marring. Had I not been experienced at this, this would have been a turning point in the project for a lot of people. I’m shocked at how thin the paint is and so thankful I am not busting out the polisher. Below are pictures of the process and what I saw.

4.)Plastic almost appears to have a coating of some sort on it. I ceramic coated mine but it almost didn’t want to take the coating. Hopefully we won’t see fading down the road like we do with most vehicles with this type of exterior surface. Whether your coating it or restoring it down the road, remember these pieces are very porous and get clogged with contamination. It needs to be cleaned properly or you won’t get proper adhesion.

Here are pictures of the process, hope you enjoy.

Before:

After:

Clay After Decon: lots of dirt and grime embedded into the clear coat

Paint After Clay: No visible scratches or marring when done right

Measuring The Paint:

Results: For Reference, you can assume you have about 1.5-2. Mils of base/color coat on a car. 1 Mil is .001 of an inch. For reference, a post it note is 3 Mils thick. So most cars paint is thinner than a post it note. Most new cars have about the same amount of clear coat, sometimes less and sometimes more. After reading as low as 2.28 on some places that’s a sign there is very little to no clear coat on these vehicles.

Coating Time:
Gtechniq CSL Followed By ExoV4

Beyond happy with the results!!!

Hope you enjoy and thanks for reading!!!

The difference is UNBELIEVABLE! You did an amazing job!

 

[Superchunk]

Just read this entire thread and I'm inspired. Hope it's not too annoying but I want to outline my plan to make sure I'm not doing something silly.

I'll be working outside. No access to a garage.

Wash carefully using p&s pearl shampoo
Mother's cmx surface prep
Adams rust remover
McGuire clay bar
Mother's surface prep
Gtechniq csl crystal light (p&s available is the legend premium kit..$200 more...if it's worth it I'll do it...)
P&s bead maker

All of this would cost me less than $300cdn which is pretty good. I've done some detailing, enough to own a polisher and know to expect it to take time and care (just did my daughter's interior alone took me almost 8 hours...looks good though).

Am I missing anything? I went with products that I can get easily and quickly but is there an alternative I should look at for any of them?

Any recommendations for doing the glass? The p&s kit is $150 which...is a lot.

Tia

 

[ParagonDetail]

Just read this entire thread and I'm inspired. Hope it's not too annoying but I want to outline my plan to make sure I'm not doing something silly.

I'll be working outside. No access to a garage.

Wash carefully using p&s pearl shampoo
Mother's cmx surface prep
Adams rust remover
McGuire clay bar
Mother's surface prep
Gtechniq csl crystal light (p&s available is the legend premium kit..$200 more...if it's worth it I'll do it...)
P&s bead maker

All of this would cost me less than $300cdn which is pretty good. I've done some detailing, enough to own a polisher and know to expect it to take time and care (just did my daughter's interior alone took me almost 8 hours...looks good though).

Am I missing anything? I went with products that I can get easily and quickly but is there an alternative I should look at for any of them?

Any recommendations for doing the glass? The p&s kit is $150 which...is a lot.

Tia

Everything looks great.
Remember when doing ceramic coatings, 99% of the work is Prep. If the car isn’t prepped properly the coating will not adhere and you won’t get much out of it. Work at a comfortable speed, don’t cut corners and you’ll be alright.

I would stay away from P&S Legend unless you are extremely comfortable with coatings. It is a professional grade coating and it is very unforgiving. It cures very hard and does it fast. Little room for mistakes. CSL is one of the most user friendly coatings I’ve used and you shouldn’t have a problem with it. I always recommend starting in small sections, see how the coating reacts and flashes and then repeat. Typically CSL is a wipe on/wipe off but depending on temp. and humidity it could need some time to flash. Feel free to reach out if you need any advice. Good luck

P.S. P&S Vue is expensive but you will get a lot of applications out of it. However it might be to much product for what you’re doing. It will not last more than a year in the bottle after it’s opened.. I would look into a one application sized coating for the glass. Something like CarPro Fly By Forte or Gtechniq Smart Glass are great glass coatings that come in small sizes/affordable prices.

 

[ParagonDetail]

Interesting. How does the 4.4 mils compare to other comparably priced vehicles? Is there a standard expected reading for cars these days?

There is no standard and any of those manufacturers would probably tell you that. Most cars I see are around 4 Mils. I just saw a brand new Toyota Highlander with 5 Mils all around. And just saw another Ford with about 3.13 as the average and a low of 2.16. We recently walked the Ford Dealership and saw everywhere from 1.96-6.34. A lot of Mazdas lately in my group of detailers and they’re getting scary thin too. Will post up some photos for reference. This is not a drill, paint is getting scary thin and the whole detailing industry is not happy about it.

 

[ParagonDetail]

The difference is UNBELIEVABLE! You did an amazing job!

Thank you

 

[ParagonDetail]

@ParagonDetail I'm in the north bay, might have to drive over to Sac to have your shop do my Maverick.

One spot here wants $2075 (+$300 for windows and wheel faces) for a 2 layer "7 year" coating, and $2775 (+$200 windows/wheels) for a 3 layer "9 year" Gtechniq CSU Black coating.
https://pristineautodetail.com/ceramic-coating-pricing/

Another one: "5 year" $1895 (incl windows and wheel faces) or "10 year" coating $2595 plus; once a year maintenance $350.
https://www.autosportdetailing.com/pricing/

These prices seem insane to me. I read through about 10 pages but didn't see your prices - what do you recommend and what is the cost for a Maverick?

Depends really. Yes those prices are high but that’s what you get at a lot of these high end shops. I used to work in one and it costs a lot of money to keep the doors open. You’re paying premium pricing. Upside is you typically won’t get a busted job.

 

[Jameson]

There is no standard and any of those manufacturers would probably tell you that. Most cars I see are around 4 Mils. I just saw a brand new Toyota Highlander with 5 Mils all around. And just saw another Ford with about 3.13 as the average and a low of 2.16. We recently walked the Ford Dealership and saw everywhere from 1.96-6.34. A lot of Mazdas lately in my group of detailers and they’re getting scary thin too. Will post up some photos for reference. This is not a drill, paint is getting scary thin and the whole detailing industry is not happy about it.

Wow. Really informative. Eye opener. Thank you.

 

[MikeyCNY]

There is no standard and any of those manufacturers would probably tell you that. Most cars I see are around 4 Mils. I just saw a brand new Toyota Highlander with 5 Mils all around. And just saw another Ford with about 3.13 as the average and a low of 2.16. We recently walked the Ford Dealership and saw everywhere from 1.96-6.34. A lot of Mazdas lately in my group of detailers and they’re getting scary thin too. Will post up some photos for reference. This is not a drill, paint is getting scary thin and the whole detailing industry is not happy about it.

Does choice of paint color make a difference? For example my Hot Pepper Red, called a "tri-coat" - would that appreciably increase the paint thickness?

 

[Superchunk]

Everything looks great.
Remember when doing ceramic coatings, 99% of the work is Prep. If the car isn’t prepped properly the coating will not adhere and you won’t get much out of it. Work at a comfortable speed, don’t cut corners and you’ll be alright.

I would stay away from P&S Legend unless you are extremely comfortable with coatings. It is a profess grade coating and it is dry unforgiving. It cures very hard and does it fast. Little room for mistakes. CSL is one of the most user friendly coating I’ve used and you shouldn’t have a problem with it. I always recommend starting in small sections, see how the coating reacts and flashes and then repeat. Typically CSL is a wipe on/wipe off but depending on temp. and humidity it could need some time to flash. Feel free to reach out if you need any advice. Good luck

P.S. P&S Vue is expensive but you will get a lot of applications out of it. However it might be to much product for what you’re doing. It will not last more than a year in the bottle after it’s opened.. I would look into a one application sized coating for the glass. Something like CarPro Fly By Forte or Gtechniq Smart Glass are great glass coatings that come in small sizes/affordable prices.

Really appreciate all the advice, you're a credit to your trade.

Definitely will do the very best prep I can. I don't intend to do paint correction on my 2 week old truck, come what may...

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