ADM fatigue may have finally occurred.

[Dun4791]

Do you understand that even if you're "only" paying MSRP your vehicle is still marked up?

At this point you're really just arguing about how much you're willing to have your vehicle marked up. You're not going to have a choice to avoid it completely.

I looked into a Santa Cruz. I called a few places. The lower trims were at MSRP (who pays sticker price for a Hyundai???) and any models with the 2.5 turbo were 5k ADM. Almost none of them were actually on the lot. All "to be reserved" with a non-refundable deposit.

I found a 2022 Ranger on a dealer's lot (it was the ONLY one they had). Price was MSRP. When I was walking away I got offered a whopping 1k off. (35k instead of 36k)

Even if I could get a Santa Cruz without ADM... I'd gladly pay 5k not to be stuck in a Santa Cruz.

You are an emotional purchaser, with a side of blind brand loyalty. Ford dealers must love you, I know I would.

There’s no talking to you. You do you, I don’t care how much your over pay. I know I won’t. I’ve never paid msrp for a vehicle in my life either, and never will.

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[Naranjita]

Do you understand that even if you're "only" paying MSRP your vehicle is still marked up?

Just moving the goal posts now...

 

[JennyJoannSuebeeMcNash]

Gotta have it.

Gotta have it NOW!!!

Think about how many new iPhones are purchased for this exact reason? I want to know why a cell phone needs to cost $1000+ dollars? If my iPhone 5 hadn't died, I'd still be using it. I loved that phone!

 

[NJ Pinelands]

Anyone know when shovels hit the ground for the new Ford battery and microchip plants here in America?

 

[Flomounier1]

Quite the opposite here in Los Angeles, at least for gas efficient 4 cylinder cars. People are even paying premium prices for Civics with salvage titles. There isn't a clean Honda Fit under $15,000 for sale on craigslist within 250 miles either.

 

[AndrewinMD]

Quite the opposite here in Los Angeles, at least for gas efficient 4 cylinder cars. People are even paying premium prices for Civics with salvage titles. There isn't a clean Honda Fit under $15,000 for sale on craigslist within 250 miles either.

I just traded in my daughter's '16 Honda Fit for a '21 Jetta (new) because that Fit should replace the "F" with "Sh" in the name. In 15 months of ownership, we had three batteries, a new alternator, a leak, and finally bad injectors. I "ungunked" the injectors and traded it in for $500 more than I paid for it from Carvana. I'll stick with lawnmower engines with Honda.

 

[Angry Hippo]

You are an emotional purchaser, with a side of blind brand loyalty. Ford dealers must love you, I know I would.

There’s no talking to you. You do you, I don’t care how much your over pay. I know I won’t. I’ve never paid msrp for a vehicle in my life either, and never will.

You've been 'talking' to me this entire time. Up until here I thought we were having a friendly exchange of ideas and sharing experiences. It's too bad you got your panties in a twist and pivoted to throwing around baseless accusations that border on name calling.

If you look around at the inflationary economy we're experiencing and think, "prices will come back down" then ROFLMAO. I have a bridge to sell you, buddy.

You used to be able to buy a fully loaded F-150 for 20k. I'm just sure if you just wait long enough you'll see those prices come back down.

 

[JASmith]

Think about how many new iPhones are purchased for this exact reason? I want to know why a cell phone needs to cost $1000+ dollars? If my iPhone 5 hadn't died, I'd still be using it. I loved that phone!

The smartphone argument actually makes more sense, as you're paying for the technology and its replacing multiple devices from a camera to video recorder to a laptop to a light gaming system and more, all in a form factor that fits in your pocket. Just add a dex dock external keyboard, mouse, and 24" or so screen and you don't really need a home computer.

Problem with this market is that we aren't paying for more, we're getting about the same technology as in 2020, but marked up because of parts shortages and there isn't a lot (or perhaps any) pressure from the captains of industry to rapidly fix the "problem" because its not really a problem if they are making as much if not more than they were back in 2019.

So who knows how long this will last, I thought it would be over and done with by January at the latest... pfft. There are Kia economy cars with asking prices $6K over MSRP. I don't like waiting, but I will as long as it takes.

 

[WesM]

I'll play devil's advocate with you and ask 5 years ago how much did the cheapest hybrid cost? Typically 4 to 7k over the equivalent gasoline model. Now look at the hybrid Maverick at 21k

The Maverick is an anomaly, no other Hybrid is cheaper than its gas equivalent. Most hybrids are $5-10k (with full EVs being $20-50k) more on average.

 

[JASmith]

ADMs aren't going anywhere. Because dealers are selling fewer vehicles they must, MUST get a better price for them (or cut costs elsewhere).

Not even close to accurate, because any business is all about revenue versus costs.

It doesn't matter if your sales numbers decrease if your costs decrease even more, which is why despite dealership sales having declined their actual profits have broken records never before seen: https://www.kbb.com/car-news/dealership-profits-breaking-records-during-car-shortage/

In fact, there have been numerous times in history where manufacturers have colluded to reduce production in order to increase profitability, such as the infamous LCD fiasco in which the world's largest manufacturers were convicted for colluding for several years to agree to all reduce their production in order to become more profitable, with only the consumer losing. Heck, that's why OPEC was created for example, as it generally only costs $3 a barrel or so to extract quality crude from most OPEC member nations but if they all agree to just let the oil out at a trickle they can increase prices to where they all become filthy rich to the point they can have artificial snow ski resorts in the middle of the dessert like in Dubai.

So don't buy into this nonsense that dealers have to increase prices, as they have proven unequivocally that they do not, since even if they sold the vehicles at the same prices as they did before, the fact that the vehicles can be pre-sold with little to no effort without having to spend a ton on advertising and gimmicks and tons of salesman and one buyer for every fifty tire-kickers while paying for insurance and what not for months the vehicles used to linger on lots means their costs are practically non-existent. In fact, the real argument to be made is why are middle-men even necessary taking their pound of flesh to order a vehicle from Ford?

 

[NewBernWolf]

I'll play devil's advocate with you and ask 5 years ago how much did the cheapest hybrid cost? Typically 4 to 7k over the equivalent gasoline model. Now look at the hybrid Maverick at 21k

I'd have to disagree with you about that 4 to 7k statement. I've owned 2 hybrids that I bought new. I bought my fully loaded 2008 Prius in the middle of fast rising gas prices, and I had to wait for it, but I paid about $27k or maybe $1500 more than a comparably built Accord, and about the same as a Camry. I paid MSRP on that one because of demand.

My 2017 Prius had an MSRP of just over $32k, and I juggled that down to $26.5k because gas was cheap, and hybrids were easy to find. That $32k list was very much inline with any accessorized Camry or Accord on the lots.

 

[Angry Hippo]

Not even close to accurate, because any business is all about revenue versus costs.

It doesn't matter if your sales numbers decrease if your costs decrease even more, which is why despite dealership sales having declined their actual profits have broken records never before seen: https://www.kbb.com/car-news/dealership-profits-breaking-records-during-car-shortage/

Did you not read the article you linked?

Your own source says sales numbers didn't decrease at all. Sales numbers are up.

From the Article - "Though dealers have fewer cars on the lot, NADA reports that they’re selling more of them than in 2020."

Admittedly, that came as a surprise to me. I'll concede that dealers aren't being forced to mark vehicles up as a result of suffering a decline in sales (at least at the time of the printing of the article back in November 2021... I wonder if that is still accurate in 2022).

The rest of your post confuses me. It seems to conflate the sales side with the production side. Blaming a dealer for increased prices due to the manufacturer's idle production and supply constraints seems bizarre. Do you really think Toyota/Hyundai/Ford/Nissan/GM/Chrysler and their entire network of dealers colluded to make this happen? I guess it's plausible... but really?

I don't blame the local gas station when the price of gas goes up, even if they put a little extra markup on top.

I stand corrected, dealers aren't raising prices to make up for lost profits.

I guess they're simply raising prices because it's what the market will bear given current supply/demand. Players gonna play and haters gonna hate.

I maintain my prediction that ADMs aren't going anywhere soon. Desirable vehicles will continue to sell near or above MSRP for some time to come. I think we will get out of these markups but won't actually see a decrease in price. We will only see an increase in the MSRP so the dealer's pricing seem less egregious.
When I look how much the lux technology package price increased just year over year (12~%) I'd bet on it.

10k ADM on hybrid maverick... because realistically I'd expect to pay 31k+ for a hybrid truck considering a Prius starts at 25k+ and the Escape at 28k+.

 

[Area51BS]

You are an emotional purchaser, with a side of blind brand loyalty. Ford dealers must love you, I know I would.

There’s no talking to you. You do you, I don’t care how much your over pay. I know I won’t. I’ve never paid msrp for a vehicle in my life either, and never will.

I paid MSRP 2 times in a month. Once when we sold a car for more than paid and got a Bronco Sport. And 2nd when I traded a paid off 2015 Colorado for 21k and glad to see it go for my Lariat. Didn’t need to get rid of the Colorado. But I want some pleasures in life. Very happy with 2 vehicles and 2 deals. Guess it depends on the deal. Never say never.

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