👉🏻UPDATE👇🏻 Ford uses Torx PLUS ++ Here is the Difference

[Surly Old Bill]

I've collected quite a bit over 50 years, but mostly on an as-needed basis, as you said.

The garage is 30x40 with poured concrete walls, a 13' ceiling and a 2-post lift, but I have to admit I don't use it much. I would have appreciated it more in my teens and 20s.

The older I get, the more value I put on my time and health than my wallet. That's why I think I will start only keeping vehicles for a bit after warranty expires, maybe even buy a (good) extended warranty, instead of keeping them 10+ years gambling that I won't run into a major repair.
I threw almost $3k at my Transit(not Connect) tranny a couple years ago because I had to. I won't do that again. At the time, the economic conditions were such that used cars and new cars were EXPENSIVE. I could have sold my Transit(not Connect) with over 140k on it for more than I bought it new. And then what would I buy? The same van for the same price? A new one for double the price? It made more financial sense to fix it. Now, prices have come back down on things a bit. You can actually buy something at or below MSRP now instead of 20%+ higher than MSRP.

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[Glen Baker LLC]

The older I get, the more value I put on my time and health than my wallet. That's why I think I will start only keeping vehicles for a bit after warranty expires, maybe even buy a (good) extended warranty, instead of keeping them 10+ years gambling that I won't run into a major repair.
I threw almost $3k at my Transit(not Connect) tranny a couple years ago because I had to. I won't do that again. At the time, the economic conditions were such that used cars and new cars were EXPENSIVE. I could have sold my Transit(not Connect) with over 140k on it for more than I bought it new. And then what would I buy? The same van for the same price? A new one for double the price? It made more financial sense to fix it. Now, prices have come back down on things a bit. You can actually buy something at or below MSRP now instead of 20%+ higher than MSRP.

Bill,
At the time. I realize that you can't actually know what you would have gotten but your best guess.
What do you think you could have gotten price wise for your Transit with a broken transmission?

What do you think it's value was once the transmission was fixed?

Are you still using the transit?


It was about 2010 when I did the same thing with my 1996 Chrysler Town & Country lxi minivan.
I spent $2,400 to have the transmission rebuilt.
I ended up keeping and using the van until 2022 when I sold it back to the original buyer my brother-in-law it had 97,000 miles on it.

 

[Surly Old Bill]

Bill,
At the time. I realize that you can't actually know what you would have gotten but your best guess.
What do you think you could have gotten price wise for your Transit with a broken transmission?

What do you think it's value is once the transmission was fixed?

Are you still using the transit?

Using other sales of similar condition vans nationwide, I would have easily received $28-30k, even with the dying $20 sensor in the tranny that required a $3k operation to replace it at a shop. You couldn't buy just the sensor from Ford, you had to buy the entire valve body with it installed, and you could not buy just the valve body without also buying planetary gears etc.. So I have a rebuilt tranny because I needed to replace a $20 sensor. If I could have just bought the sensor and installed it myself, I would have. Unobtanium. The cost would have been over $9k at a Ford disservice center using same exact Ford parts (I checked), so I got away cheap-er. Oddly, it was about the same cost to have an entire rebuilt tranny installed at a disservice center; maybe that's what they do to replace a $20 sensor, I wouldn't doubt it.

Current value has dropped to about $15-17k with 160k mileage as a raw van, but around $20-22 including the campervan setup. I'm on the fence about selling it, because it's nice for roadtrips and a way to avoid $200+/night motel rooms. BUT, we only seem to have a chance to do that kind of thing a few times a year right now, and it's a ticking time bomb being a Ford with 160k miles, despite the rebuilt tranny, new front suspension, new brakes, new shocks, etc. My trophy fake-wife sure isn't going to tolerate tent camping after the luxury of the van, so if I sold it I'd have to either rent one for trips (like $200+ a day, not including fuel...) or stay in motels (ick). I've kind of decided to just buy a ready-made van like the Revel or maybe Solis new, enjoying the comfort of a warranty and the delusional idea that a new vehicle won't break down. Of course the fake-wife likes the Atlas Tommy Bahama class C, but that's not going to happen for several reason, the main one being it's too big to take on dirt backroads to secluded unimproved camping spots in the Desert Southwest.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

Using other sales of similar condition vans nationwide, I would have easily received $28-30k, even with the dying $20 sensor in the tranny that required a $3k operation to replace it at a shop. You couldn't buy just the sensor from Ford, you had to buy the entire valve body with it installed, and you could not buy just the valve body without also buying planetary gears etc.. So I have a rebuilt tranny because I needed to replace a $20 sensor. If I could have just bought the sensor and installed it myself, I would have. Unobtanium. The cost would have been over $9k at a Ford disservice center using same exact Ford parts (I checked), so I got away cheap-er. Oddly, it was about the same cost to have an entire rebuilt tranny installed at a disservice center; maybe that's what they do to replace a $20 sensor, I wouldn't doubt it.

A $20 dying sensor is kind of a misnomer it was a $3,000 dying sensor

 

[Hot Runr Guy]

I'm using a 2-piece Craftsman tool box, like this:

Yeap! I had to add the 2-drawer extension some years ago. Funny thing is, most of my sockets are S-K Tool brand, bought when I worked at an auto parts store in my late teens, 50 years ago!

HRG

 

[sajohnson]

The older I get, the more value I put on my time and health than my wallet. That's why I think I will start only keeping vehicles for a bit after warranty expires, maybe even buy a (good) extended warranty, instead of keeping them 10+ years gambling that I won't run into a major repair.
I threw almost $3k at my Transit(not Connect) tranny a couple years ago because I had to. I won't do that again. At the time, the economic conditions were such that used cars and new cars were EXPENSIVE. I could have sold my Transit(not Connect) with over 140k on it for more than I bought it new. And then what would I buy? The same van for the same price? A new one for double the price? It made more financial sense to fix it. Now, prices have come back down on things a bit. You can actually buy something at or below MSRP now instead of 20%+ higher than MSRP.

It sounds like we're in similar positions. When I was younger I was more focused on cost than value. As I've gotten older I look for better quality and lower long-term cost. My rough rule of thumb is that products priced around the 'point of diminishing returns' (best bang for the buck) often cost about 2-3x the price of the cheapest item in that category. Of course there are exceptions.

We've always bought vehicles new and driven the wheels off of them. As with my rule of thumb above, there are exceptions, but buying a reliable car and keeping it until the cost of repairs becomes excessive is most likely to result in the lowest cost/mile.

For example, our BS Badlands replaced my wife's 1997 RAV4 (5MT, AWD, Torsen rear). She'd still be driving it, but it got to the point where I didn't feel like working on it anymore. It had been very dependable but developed a lot of rust underneath. She drove it for 26 years. The other 2 cars we have (all 3 off the road) are a '93 Nissan NX2000 with 250,000 miles and a 2002 Subaru WRX with >200,000 miles. All still run great, but the WRX and NX both need steering racks.

Anyway, like most of what's on forums our experience is anecdotal, but there are endless stories like that -- people who buy new from mfrs with a good rep and get 250-300,000 miles or more from their vehicle.

Of course there are horror stories too -- cars that have endless expensive problems. It's not a roll of the dice though. It's common knowledge which mfrs make the most reliable cars.

I've posted a lot about extended warranties, but briefly -- it's best to be self-insured for all but the most potentially expensive risks. For most people that might be home, health, auto. All insurance policies and extended warranties are gambling, betting against the house, and the house always wins. The only reasons to buy an extended warranty are a) if the worst case repair would be unaffordable, or b) peace of mind. Financially they are a bad deal. They must be, by definition, because the underwriter must pay out less than they take in. As with casinos, there are a few 'winners' (who will brag to anyone who will listen) but many, many more 'losers' (who generally do not post about how much money they lost).

 

[Surly Old Bill]

It sounds like we're in similar positions. When I was younger I was more focused on cost than value. As I've gotten older I look for better quality and lower long-term cost. My rough rule of thumb is that products priced around the 'point of diminishing returns' (best bang for the buck) often cost about 2-3x the price of the cheapest item in that category. Of course there are exceptions.

We've always bought vehicles new and driven the wheels off of them. As with my rule of thumb above, there are exceptions, but buying a reliable car and keeping it until the cost of repairs becomes excessive is most likely to result in the lowest cost/mile.

Two personal anecdotes:
When you buy a car new, you know EXACTLY what's it's been through and how it's been maintained. It comes at a higher cost, but you're paying for that knowledge/peace of mind. Still, I would consider a car with less than 5k miles to basically be "new", and you don't have to eat the depreciation from driving it off the lot.

Running shoes. I tend to wear out the outsoles in about 250 miles (weird gait from a birth defect). Most acceptable shoes are around $150-180/pair now. I tried a pair of SuperBlast based on recommendations, they are at 550 miles and still going but probably will be done at around 650 miles. They are $200. It's cheaper for me to spend $200 on shoes than $180, or even $100.

 

[sajohnson]

Two personal anecdotes:
When you buy a car new, you know EXACTLY what's it's been through and how it's been maintained. It comes at a higher cost, but you're paying for that knowledge/peace of mind. Still, I would consider a car with less than 5k miles to basically be "new", and you don't have to eat the depreciation from driving it off the lot.

Running shoes. I tend to wear out the outsoles in about 250 miles (weird gait from a birth defect). Most acceptable shoes are around $150-180/pair now. I tried a pair of SuperBlast based on recommendations, they are at 550 miles and still going but probably will be done at around 650 miles. They are $200. It's cheaper for me to spend $200 on shoes than $180, or even $100.

The shoes are a perfect example of value.

There's a lot to be said for buying a used car. I never have because buying new is just easier and less of a risk, but buying used can result in the lowest cost per mile.

My step-mother bought a used (? Toyota I think) for $5,000 and drove it for at least 200,000 miles, or 2.5 cents/mile for depreciation, with very few repairs.

Still, there is always some risk when buying used. In her case she knew the previous owner and they had taken good care of the car, but in most cases we have no idea why the car was sold. Quite often it's due to some issue the previous owner did not want to deal with.

It's absolutely true that new vehicles depreciate a lot when driven off the lot, and for the first 4-5 years. However, if the vehicle is kept for 20+ years, the cost per mile decreases. Not to the 2.5 cents my step-mom saw, but significantly less than what it is initially.

There is no one right way of going about it. Buying new and holding them for a long time has worked for us, but buying used definitely can be a good way to go.

That's what we did with our RV. There was no way we could afford a new View/Navion so we bought a 2009 in 2012 for about 1/2 of the price when new. It had ~20,000 miles on it. It now has about 100K miles and has given us very little trouble.

 

[sajohnson]

Yeap! I had to add the 2-drawer extension some years ago. Funny thing is, most of my sockets are S-K Tool brand, bought when I worked at an auto parts store in my late teens, 50 years ago!

HRG

That (or similar) is what I need. The drawers on mine will barely close.

A few years ago I bought some nice magnetic ("Strongway") socket organizers from Northern (unfortunately the price has now doubled). I really like them, but they do not all fit in the drawers (with the other tools). Also, because they have magnets on the back (designed to attach to the side of a toolbox) they really should have their own dedicated drawers. As it is, some of whatever is in the drawer (sockets, wrenches, extensions) get stuck to them.

In addition to the magnetic holders, I have cheap organizers I've bought over the years -- the old chromed steel strips with socket holders that are a PITA to use, and some plastic trays with holes sized for the sockets. They are OK, but you can't pick them up out of the drawer and carry them with you -- that's the main reason I bought the magnetic ones.

Anyway, it looks like you have plenty of space! I really need to add capacity to what I have. In addition, I wish the Northern magnetic holders had not increased in price so much. Here's the 3/8 holder:
https://www.northerntool.com/produc...gnetic-socket-holder-sae-and-metric-red-53936

I think I paid about $14. At $33 I'd have to look around again. Hopefully the alternatives are better now. Back then, these were clearly the best of the ones I researched.

It would be nice to have enough drawer space for all of the magnetic holders.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

ADHD yes. OCD not so much.
Here are my wrench drawers.
SAE & metric are mixed

And somehow life still goes on.

 

[Meeka]

ADHD yes. OCD not so much.
Here are my wrench drawers.
SAE & metric are mixed

I could show you worse, but I won’t!

 

[sajohnson]

Using other sales of similar condition vans nationwide, I would have easily received $28-30k, even with the dying $20 sensor in the tranny that required a $3k operation to replace it at a shop. You couldn't buy just the sensor from Ford, you had to buy the entire valve body with it installed, and you could not buy just the valve body without also buying planetary gears etc.. So I have a rebuilt tranny because I needed to replace a $20 sensor. If I could have just bought the sensor and installed it myself, I would have. Unobtanium. The cost would have been over $9k at a Ford disservice center using same exact Ford parts (I checked), so I got away cheap-er. Oddly, it was about the same cost to have an entire rebuilt tranny installed at a disservice center; maybe that's what they do to replace a $20 sensor, I wouldn't doubt it.

Current value has dropped to about $15-17k with 160k mileage as a raw van, but around $20-22 including the campervan setup. I'm on the fence about selling it, because it's nice for roadtrips and a way to avoid $200+/night motel rooms. BUT, we only seem to have a chance to do that kind of thing a few times a year right now, and it's a ticking time bomb being a Ford with 160k miles, despite the rebuilt tranny, new front suspension, new brakes, new shocks, etc. My trophy fake-wife sure isn't going to tolerate tent camping after the luxury of the van, so if I sold it I'd have to either rent one for trips (like $200+ a day, not including fuel...) or stay in motels (ick). I've kind of decided to just buy a ready-made van like the Revel or maybe Solis new, enjoying the comfort of a warranty and the delusional idea that a new vehicle won't break down. Of course the fake-wife likes the Atlas Tommy Bahama class C, but that's not going to happen for several reason, the main one being it's too big to take on dirt backroads to secluded unimproved camping spots in the Desert Southwest.

The Revel looks nice:
https://www.winnebago.com/models/product/motorhomes/camper-van/2024-revel?specifications=true

One of many cool features is the aux alternator that's dedicated to charging the LFP (lithium) batteries.

Something that's a negative (IMO) is the cassette toilet. We have a View which has a regular RV toilet. There are dump stations almost everywhere, but they usually aren't free. I believe a cassette toilet can be emptied in any ordinary toilet. So that may be a plus, but the limited capacity of a cassette toilet and the less than pleasant experience of emptying them is a major drawback.

The 4WD seems like a must-have for the dirt backroads you mentioned. We've been on many ourselves (in AZ and NM) -- not in our View though. I know they say that as long as it's dry, high clearance if often all that's needed. That may be true in some cases but it's nice to run in 2WD and have 4WD as a backup if you get stuck.

 

[Surly Old Bill]

The Revel looks nice:
https://www.winnebago.com/models/product/motorhomes/camper-van/2024-revel?specifications=true

One of many cool features is the aux alternator that's dedicated to charging the LFP (lithium) batteries.

Something that's a negative (IMO) is the cassette toilet. We have a View which has a regular RV toilet. There are dump stations almost everywhere, but they usually aren't free. I believe a cassette toilet can be emptied in any ordinary toilet. So that may be a plus, but the limited capacity of a cassette toilet and the less than pleasant experience of emptying them is a major drawback.

The 4WD seems like a must-have for the dirt backroads you mentioned. We've been on many ourselves (in AZ and NM) -- not in our View though. I know they say that as long as it's dry, high clearance if often all that's needed. That may be true in some cases but it's nice to run in 2WD and have 4WD as a backup if you get stuck.

I wonder if they use Torx + or Torx Double Plus Good?

For us a cassette toilet is fine; that's what I have in my Transit(not Connect). The trick is to only use it if you have to, relying on rest areas or store and public restrooms most of the time. And if we're going to be in the same spot for a few days I set up the shower tent as a private outhouse. Emptying has never been a problem for me.

4WD and AWD are nice luxuries, I've only "needed" them in sand or icy roads. I'm a fair weather camper so I rarely run into a situation where I "need" them, but I sure "like" them in a lot of situations. And now you don't get the mpg hit like you used to, so the main drawback is purchase price.

 

[sajohnson]

I wonder if they use Torx + or Torx Double Plus Good?

For us a cassette toilet is fine; that's what I have in my Transit(not Connect). The trick is to only use it if you have to, relying on rest areas or store and public restrooms most of the time. And if we're going to be in the same spot for a few days I set up the shower tent as a private outhouse. Emptying has never been a problem for me.

4WD and AWD are nice luxuries, I've only "needed" them in sand or icy roads. I'm a fair weather camper so I rarely run into a situation where I "need" them, but I sure "like" them in a lot of situations. And now you don't get the mpg hit like you used to, so the main drawback is purchase price.

We started out looking at class B RVs. There's a lot to be said for them. For one thing they can go (and be parked) more places. There are length limits in some places, like Going to the Sun Road in Glacier where our View is prohibited, but most class Bs would not be.

A good compromise is a class B with a slide-out.

I've never used a cassette toilet, but having a 30+ gallon black tank seems preferable. Not that dump stations are much fun...

Because we live on what passes for a mountain here in Central MD, I've tended to buy AWD vehicles. That's why we got the Badlands vs the other Bronco Sport trims, for it's more capable AWD system. As you said though, AWD or 4WD are rarely necessary (for most people). Like so much else though, when it's needed there is no alternative. That said, while we always rented 4WD vehicles out there in NM and AZ, 2WD was usually adequate off-road. Of course we weren't purposely seeking out Rubicon Trail type roads.

 

[Surly Old Bill]

The shoes are a perfect example of value.

There's a lot to be said for buying a used car. I never have because buying new is just easier and less of a risk, but buying used can result in the lowest cost per mile.

My step-mother bought a used (? Toyota I think) for $5,000 and drove it for at least 200,000 miles, or 2.5 cents/mile for depreciation, with very few repairs.

Still, there is always some risk when buying used. In her case she knew the previous owner and they had taken good care of the car, but in most cases we have no idea why the car was sold. Quite often it's due to some issue the previous owner did not want to deal with.

It's absolutely true that new vehicles depreciate a lot when driven off the lot, and for the first 4-5 years. However, if the vehicle is kept for 20+ years, the cost per mile decreases. Not to the 2.5 cents my step-mom saw, but significantly less than what it is initially.

There is no one right way of going about it. Buying new and holding them for a long time has worked for us, but buying used definitely can be a good way to go.

That's what we did with our RV. There was no way we could afford a new View/Navion so we bought a 2009 in 2012 for about 1/2 of the price when new. It had ~20,000 miles on it. It now has about 100K miles and has given us very little trouble.

In the last 5 years, cars didn't depreciate much until recently. Using the Maverick as an example; a used '22 XLT in '24 with 30k+ miles was worth $25-27k+ (what people were paying for them) and a brand new one was $29k+ (after dealer mark-up over the $27.5k msrp). Why buy a used one? Of course this was supply and demand, the initial covid global economy reduced production because of all the different suppliers of parts and pieces involved, so often there were a few needed parts that just weren't available and ALMOST-built cars would sit for months waiting for that part to come in from a factory that had closed or reduced production due to workers being sick, even if was as simple as a switch for the windows. That "just in time" production inventory scheme where the parts are trucked in just a day or two before they are needed on the assembly line to save money by not having to build storage and sit on parts for weeks-months-years before they were actually needed worked in the before-times, barely, but showed it's glaring weakness during those years.

The View/Navion are sweet. A friend had one. It wasn't too long ago that you could buy a used one that might be years old but basically new with less than 25k miles for a lot LESS than you'd pay for a similar year Sprinter cargo van with twice as many miles. Class C, so not great for the places I like to go, but ideal for a lot of situations, on a budget. I believe my friend said he got close to 20mpg. My '03 Sprinter averaged about 27mpg. (both diesel, for those reading this but not knowing; almost all Sprinters are diesel, there was only a year or two when they offered gas, and it didn't go well).

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