So, NO START this morning. What is it?

[HeyBales]

Why is battery saver mode different on the hybrid than it is on the EB? On my EB when it goes into BSM I do not get a notification on the app. Remote Start still works, fuel level, etc. The only notification I get is when I open the door and the interior lights do not come on until the key is inserted.

The truck has always started with no alerts, lights or anything. The only quirk in this if you want to call it that is the 12V Power Port will stop working when the doors open sooner than when the interior lights stop working. Seems like there is a higher threshold for the Power Port than for the interior lights.

Battery Saver Mode is the same on both - as you describe, lights off sooner.

I've never been notified on the app that has occurred, like when it dropped below 12.1 V and started doing it. Hybrid - however many versions of the app later, never a notice.
Other posters, hybrid and EB, would get notices regarding the lights on older app versions and BSM engaged.

The current, or maybe 1 prior Fordpass update, seems to have stopped calling the next step Deep Sleep Mode, and just threw it under the BSM term.
I'm sure to stop confusion and calls.
But the description shows it's actually DSM, and the BSM had likely started awhile back.

Unless you are having an intermittent parasitic draw hit, and it caused BSM and DSM in one night as the battery drained.

So the picture you commented on (which was an EB) - really DSM, hence no remote start.
What you are experiencing - really just BSM, hence you do have remote start.
Give it some - you'll be able to join that other club!
(since you are in EB too - maybe not, don't feel left out!)

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[HeyBales]

Surly, this is a well known problem at Ford dealers. First, drop by the Service Department and speak with a Service Advisor that you've built a relationship with. If you haven't done that yet, do it ... someone you can work with in the future when things come up. Explain all this stuff to him or her. Then, make the appointment. This is the way I handled my 12V battery problem. When I brought it in, It took a couple of hours for them to test the battery then change it to a brand spankin new AGM. By the way, I had a back up plan. Thanks to postings here, I had an AGM selected on AMAZON for a whole lot less than $200, under $150 in fact.

Ya - a bunch of codes set (possibly set) because of a low battery event that recovered back up to a level that won't get a warranty battery - I don't have time like described to waste at a dealer.

As Bill showed - DTC's finally did go away, and battery charged up fine.
He totally would have wasted his time. Unless service manager was super nice and allowed a new battery anyway.
But they probably would have kept it overnight since it wasn't even that bad the next morning.

 

[Surly Old Bill]

Seeing you've done this long term battery disconnect, do you know how to lock up the vehicle with no battery in it? Yes the drivers door has a key, but without a battery the rest of the doors won't lock.

yep, you lock the doors before disconnecting the battery. You DO have to manually unlock like the olde tymes, and then reach through and use your hand(!) to unlock the rear passenger door to access the battery to reconnect it.

 

[Surly Old Bill]

Checking it tonight it was already down to 12.3vdc after being parked for a couple hours.
I'm headed out early in the morning so I just connected my battery charger to keep it up overnight (has auto shut down and senses multiple battery types, LA, AGM, GEL, LiIon, etc.)

Thus, I won't have sciencey report to evaluate and share. Since it was down to just 12.3vdc I'm pretty sure the battery is junk. BUT, there is still a possibility that there is some phantom drain happening, since it kept charge overnight when disconnected. I don't think it's a waste of money to get a decent battery to replace the crappy OEM one, so I'm going that route. If it continues to drain overnight with a new battery, then I have a different road to travel.

 

[HeyBales]

Oh - you haven't even lived in the land of 11.6 to 12 V for months, including the winter.

12.3V - ah, I only have that in some log files on my way down to current levels, way back in Sep, from a new warranty battery in Jul!

Have you had some recent voltage readings?
I think you had an intermittent drain during the going to sleep process - it was killed when things finally went to sleep, and you had some battery recovery by the morning. 11.8V didn't set DTC's then, it was the 10.x the night before.

Could that issue happen again during that 75 min?
Maybe. AGM probably handle it better at least.
And doing this on your own terms and convenient time.
If you buy it with a MasterCard - we can say "Priceless".

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Checking it tonight it was already down to 12.3vdc after being parked for a couple hours.
I'm headed out early in the morning so I just connected my battery charger to keep it up overnight (has auto shut down and senses multiple battery types, LA, AGM, GEL, LiIon, etc.)

Thus, I won't have sciencey report to evaluate and share. Since it was down to just 12.3vdc I'm pretty sure the battery is junk. BUT, there is still a possibility that there is some phantom drain happening, since it kept charge overnight when disconnected. I don't think it's a waste of money to get a decent battery to replace the crappy OEM one, so I'm going that route. If it continues to drain overnight with a new battery, then I have a different road to travel.

Junk, maybe. But mine has been 12.1 or 12.2 volts for 3 years and I'm still using it.

The Hybrid needs three (3) CCA.

 

[Surly Old Bill]

Junk, maybe. But mine has been 12.1 or 12.2 volts for 3 years and I'm still using it.

The Hybrid needs three (3) CCA.

good to know. My diagnosis might be premature, as I'm expecting at least 12.5vdc out of a good, charged battery.
I will have more time out of the saddle to look into things in about a week. But, I'll have a decent aftermarket battery by then, too.

Which brings to mind; yet ANOTHER extra 12vdc battery in the pile if the OEM one is actually still good. I have about a dozen MK GEL 74ah batteries from a friend who's a quadriplegic who gets new batteries for his chair every year via insurance, and some assorted car batteries (too big for Mav) for various reasons. I have a pair of the MK's in my van as house batteries, and half-baked ideas to turn the others into a home battery backup system like a Tesla Powerwall.

 

[skinnyboy]

This morning's test results, battery disconnected for over 12 hours:
No drop in voltage

I'm wondering if the low battery overnight the other day was a one-off occurrence, but I can't think of anything left on that would drain the battery. I'll have to check all the light and other switches in the cab to see if I bumped one from it's usual setting.

Next test: Leave battery connected and check voltage at night and the next morning.

Maybe I don't have to get a new battery; but being an OEM battery I suspect I do.

Had a similar experience one time on our '22 hybrid a couple of years ago. Dead (3v) battery. Pulled the battery to charge it, smart charger wouldn't start due to low voltage, but old school charger brought it up. Had no further issues with that original battery, but changed it months later prior to the winter "just because". Touch wood, hasn't happened since.

I believe these intermittent failures are what Ford is attempting to address with both the ACCM flash and the upcoming software update.

Cheers.

 

[Surly Old Bill]

Had a similar experience one time on our '22 hybrid a couple of years ago. Dead (3v) battery. Pulled the battery to charge it, smart charger wouldn't start due to low voltage, but old school charger brought it up. Had no further issues with that original battery, but changed it months later prior to the winter "just because". Touch wood, hasn't happened since.

I believe these intermittent failures are what Ford is attempting to address with both the ACCM flash and the upcoming software update.

Cheers.

Aren't modern cars wonderful?

That said, a car built prior to about 1990 was a wonder that made the newspapers if it reached 100k miles without needing a repair. Now we think it's a lemon if it doesn't go at least 150k without something breaking.

 

[MaverickDragon]

@Surly Old Bill
Although you don't need a lot of amps to start a hybrid, a load test on the battery may reveal if it has problems, and that you can get done for free at virtually any auto parts store that sells batteries.
The pre-25 MY hybrids have noted a TON of battery issues, so this situation is far from unique.

Many have resolved it with a better capacity AGM, and others with a BMS tweak to get the battery charged at a more appropriate level, or both of these remedies.

There was also a module that was implicated in a parasitic battery drain than apparently resolves the issue for most vehicles with that problem via a reset of the module.
I recall a thread that @Darryl commented on regarding this. Maybe he can chime in.

In any case, good luck.

 

[skinnyboy]

Aren't modern cars wonderful?

That said, a car built prior to about 1990 was a wonder that made the newspapers if it reached 100k miles without needing a repair. Now we think it's a lemon if it doesn't go at least 150k without something breaking.

Yeah, imagine a vehicle with modern manufacturing but an absolute minimum of code.

Cheers.

 

[MaverickDragon]

Yeah, imagine a vehicle with modern manufacturing but an absolute minimum of code.
Cheers.

Unfortunately, a minimum of code means elimination of some upcoming required safety systems.

It is interesting that car makers are and have been in an arms race to add more and more technology in their vehicles, even though many people don't like them, especially the migration of everything from push buttons to touch screens.

IMHO, it's due to the proliferation of cell phones that have an app for everything.
In any case, I don't see it changing as there are no "code free" options that people could buy to show manufacturers that less tech in cars could be a viable option.

From the manufacturer perspective, there are cost advantages to screen based systems, so that's another obstacle to a retro technology car.

For all those reasons, the vehicle you imagine will likely only exist as aa concept...

 

[SafetyGuy]

good to know. My diagnosis might be premature, as I'm expecting at least 12.5vdc out of a good, charged battery.
I will have more time out of the saddle to look into things in about a week. But, I'll have a decent aftermarket battery by then, too.

Which brings to mind; yet ANOTHER extra 12vdc battery in the pile if the OEM one is actually still good. I have about a dozen MK GEL 74ah batteries from a friend who's a quadriplegic who gets new batteries for his chair every year via insurance, and some assorted car batteries (too big for Mav) for various reasons. I have a pair of the MK's in my van as house batteries, and half-baked ideas to turn the others into a home battery backup system like a Tesla Powerwall.

This is an interesting off topic entry to the thread...the batteries you have lying around being used for energy storage.

If you do decide to go in this direction, try to ensure your battery array is (preferably) exactly the same size, rating, age, manufacturer, chemistry. This is only the tip of the iceberg as what knowledge is needed.

This is all basic storage battery set up knowledge and I won't go any further...just letting you know.

Have a good one,

Andy

 

[skinnyboy]

It is interesting that car makers are and have been in an arms race to add more and more technology in their vehicles, even though many people don't like them, especially the migration of everything from push buttons to touch screens.

Agreed. Obviously the tech features that are becoming more ubiquitous attract a large demographic. A bigger screen and more driving assist options must confer some social status, or allow the driver to disconnect even more from actually driving.

The dash on the Mustang makes me want to hurl.

Apologies for letting the thread wander.

Cheers.

 

[MaverickDragon]

Apologies for letting the thread wander.

As a co-conspirator, my apologies as well...

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