powering winch from bed when juice shuts out, and checking voltage

[dochawk]

I'm really not sure whether this should go here in towing, or in maintenance, or . . . . [so I won't be offended if it moves]

I connected the factory pigtail to my winch. It took some doing, as HF seems to leave the manual be when it makes changes to the product, but I got there (but with direction apparently reversed).

It pulled the cable tight, then stopped.

A bit of investigation showed that there was no 12v coming out of the bed socket any longer. The rig worked fine when we brought a vehicle up to draw upon.

I checked the fuse, and it was fine (but I do have to wonder what hallucigens were being used by whoever designed the engine fuse box!)

Some searching suggests that this circuit shuts off if the battery voltage drops below 12.1? By this point, the hazards had been on for an hour or two.

is there a way to display voltage (short of odd?)

or something else I should Bec considering?

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[Johnkn]

I'm really not sure whether this should go here in towing, or in maintenance, or . . . . [so I won't be offended if it moves]

I connected the factory pigtail to my winch. It took some doing, as HF seems to leave the manual be when it makes changes to the product, but I got there (but with direction apparently reversed).

It pulled the cable tight, then stopped.

A bit of investigation showed that there was no 12v coming out of the bed socket any longer. The rig worked fine when we brought a vehicle up to draw upon.

I checked the fuse, and it was fine (but I do have to wonder what hallucigens were being used by whoever designed the engine fuse box!)

Some searching suggests that this circuit shuts off if the battery voltage drops below 12.1? By this point, the hazards had been on for an hour or two.

is there a way to display voltage (short of odd?)

or something else I should Bec considering?

That‘s the 5000lb winch you purchased from Harbor Freight? A winch like that needs to be directly powered by a battery (650+ CCA) using the included heavy cables through a relay. The tiny bed pigtail and its circuit is nowhere near close to large enough, you’ve drawn too much current through that pigtail circuit and likely tripped something. The winch should have included instructions.




.

 

[dochawk]

The winch has instructions. They're apparently a couple of product revisions behind.

Anyway, the manual claims it draws up to 12A.

 

[Johnkn]

The winch has instructions. They're apparently a couple of product revisions behind.

I don't see any issues with the instructions..

High-draw devices like winches generally run directly to the vehicle battery and are triggered via a relay or solenoid. It appears the winch included 6ga cables, correct? They are huge in comparison to the >18ga pigtail in the bed, that's a ...clue....

Step 1 in the instructions are to basically cable the winch to the vehicle battery through the solenoid and breaker.. .

56326-193175364296.pdf

Did you watch the video on the Harbor Freight site?

Good luck
.
.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

The winch has instructions. They're apparently a couple of product revisions behind.

Anyway, the manual claims it draws up to 12A.

Show a picture of your "winch".

12 amps might be empty- no load- just spooling the cable back up when you are done.

I guess you missed PAGE 2 of the most recent .pdf manual.

Here ya go.

Also note it can pull more with the cable all the way out. And pulls 40% less weight when the cable is only a little bit out. Because the effective diameter of the spool changes the gear ratio. Your winch is like a CVT.

 

[kidshelleen]

Yeah, so absolutely, positively do not try to power a winch from that bed connection. I don't think the OP mentioned whether it is an EB or Hybrid, which throws another wrench into the circuit.

Mav-Mechanic's post with the HF specs provided great info, but the HF doc doesn't make clear one fundamental point. Winches will have a motor capable of producing max HP at max load. This determines their current draw. The winch pulling power is determined by the mechanical advantage of the gearing and winding cylinder/diameter of the cable assembly.

So as Mac-Mechanic provided, the diagram/table with the cabled FULLY EXTENDED gives the winch the smallest winding cylinder diameter and the maximum pull. The table just shows the current required for a given pull. At 5000lbs, the motor is working its hardest and draws ~300A. In that previous, partial table he provided, it lists the maximum pull when the cable is extended less, resulting in more wraps and reduced mechanical advantage, but the motor is still working at MAXIMUM LOAD to achieve that, so ~300A.

Also consider that the recommended fusing at the electrical supply will be 1.25X - 1.5X for a winch at the load source (battery?) AND that you'll need appropriately sized wiring to the winch (375-450A and 1AWG or larger?), and obviously you should NEVER attempt to run a winch on a receiver mount from a factory 12V bed connection.

I'm thinking about getting a Sherpa 24V winch to run off my primary 24V battery system (with adequate 24V BMS capacity), but I have a Mav Hybrid, so a 12V winch is a total non-starter, even with proper wiring to the jump terminals in the engine compartment (never to the battery under the seat).

And the OP never said what he's trying to do by achieving this. If it's for recovery, then a 5k UTV/ATV winch is inadequate. If he wants to haul a water heater out through the basement bulkhead of his house, then sure.

For recovery you should have a winch rated for at least 2X the weight of the vehicle, so for the Mav, 9-9.5k. That gives you adequate pull throughout most of the spool-fill range. That obviously increases the current draw, as it requires a 5-6HP motor (again, a 24V aux bank and winch is nice here, but an EB alternator/battery might be able to handle a judicious duty cycle - don't know, I'm head down in hybrid). There's a HF winch in this range, although I can't remember whether the spool is big enough for a decent-length rope (I hate wire cable).

Of course, you can always plan for a snatch-block and double pull with the 5k. You do you.

 

[dochawk]

I guess you missed PAGE 2 of the most recent .pdf manual.

I stopped looking for current requirements two tables above, at "Battery : 12 VDC, Minimum 12 Ah"

And the OP never said what he's trying to do by achieving this.

hmm, you're right, I didn't.

My interest pretty much begins and ends with pulling cars up my car hauler.

So far, we've successfully powered it with an escalade with a running engine, and with a battery charger set to 40A (not it's highest setting; it has a 200A engine start setting).

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

The 200amp setting only works for a couple of seconds.

 

[kidshelleen]

I stopped looking for current requirements two tables above, at "Battery : 12 VDC, Minimum 12 Ah"




hmm, you're right, I didn't.

My interest pretty much begins and ends with pulling cars up my car hauler.

So far, we've successfully powered it with an escalade with a running engine, and with a battery charger set to 40A (not it's highest setting; it has a 200A engine start setting).

So your winch will draw ~300A at its maximum pull, which will depend on how much cable is on the spool. With the line the whole way out it's 5k lbs, drawing ~300A. With the line most of the way in, it's probably around 1.5k lbs, at ~300A. You likely would pull a higher inrush with the winch when starting it up. This is why you'd fuse it at 400A if you hooked it up to a system that could actually handle it, like your Escalade with a starting battery and big running alternator.

Do not power your winch from your hybrid 12V system at all. Just don't do it. You risk messing it up and costing yourself potentially big $$ repairs.

The 12V outlet in the bed is rated for 180W, or about 15A.

My guess is that your 40A battery charger is actually supplying more current if it's running the winch. And, unless your charger is configurable to use as a 12V power supply (i.e., you can switch it from charging mode to power supply mode), I wouldn't be inclined to abuse it by putting the winch load on it.

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