Dealer 10k service-- I got got, help me understand how badly

[Glen Baker LLC]

I called around to a few locations in my area as the mileage markers approached and asked for estimates and just made sure the work aligned with what is recommended by Ford and nothing extra. I could just put some work in and do it myself, but I don’t really want to spend my free time doing it. For me, it’s worth the $150. I’ve had good experiences with the dealer who has done my first two. Definitely got some crazy quotes from others though.

Basically what I was asking was whether, you took the time or not to go over the numbers. The Op wasn't able to because he was in the middle of a business meeting and he just okayed the stuff.

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[mspmms]

Walnuts bad...
https://www.chinook-helicopter.com/history/aircraft/C_Models/74-22292/74-22292.html

But even worse:
Meme => link

 

[WJOHNM]

I know precious little about cars, but I'm trying to learn. I have a 2024 Maverick Hybrid with 9200 mi and I wanted to use my experience today as a learning experience if you would be so kind as to weigh in.

Today I went to the dealer for my 10k mile service. Oil change, tire rotation, checks, the usual. When I got there the guy mentioned that part of the 10k service is a Fuel/Air induction service. I was juggling a work meeting at the time and just said "yeah, ok". I didn't say "Um... at 10k miles?" or "I don't see that in the service plan in the app", just "ok". Ok, strike 1.

Then when it came time to square up I was in another meeting (lesson learned, next time I take the morning off) and so when he said it would be $424.01 I had some sticker shock but I paid and left. Strike 2.

When I got home and looked at the invoice I saw:

• A - Oil change, etc - $107.58
• B - Fuel/Air Induction Service - $261.95
• C - Multi point inspection - $0.00

Page 2 showed:

• Labor amount - $178.90
• Parts amount - $190.63
• Misc. charges - $32.20
• Total charges - $22.28
• Please pay - $424.01

I was also told that my brake pad thicknesses were 8, 8, 6, and 6. He said that in a few months I'll likely need to have the brake pads replaced to avoid wear on the rotors.

My questions:

1. Is there any universe where the Fuel/Air induction service was necessary, or was I 100% had?
2. Are those "Misc Charges" BS?
3. That level of brake pad wear on a hybrid with 9200 miles!? Aren't hybrids supposed to go upwards of 60k without brake changes? For reference 3k of those are long highway trips and the rest is primarily in-city highway driving (and my braking is usually between 90 and 100% according to brake coach). Am I being had here too?
4. How outraged should I be about all this?

I have bridge for sale, Sorry I had to do that, I usually sell or trade in every 3/4 years 30/40k, I have never needed brakes, I always change my oil at about 4/5k, I don't care what ford says and due my first oil change at 2k even though ford says 10k. I always go to dealer and pay about 100 bucks for oil change and rotate tires every other oil change.
I used to work for Porsche and remember the look on people's faces when you tell them they needed front brakes and rear tires at 5k throw in a oil change $2000, sorry brother you were had! is that your selling dealer? Service advisors work on commission, it used to be advisers were EX technicians, not so much anymore, their given a list of things to sell with prices, they know little about your vehicle. Not all dealers are like that, my first service at my dealer is FREE and takes a month to get a appointment because there HONEST and always busy. If you cant find a dealer you can trust and go to a independent shop save all your invoices, they must have date and mileage and list the work listed on them they did in case of a future warranty problems. There are good dealers out there, I worked for one for almost 40 years. the best advice I can give you is change your oil every 5k and rotate tires every other oil change, nothing else is needed till around 30k.

 

[Cherokee]

An argument would be a total waste of time for both of us

The OP’s engine is doing ok. No harm done. Spending $250 more than necessary could have been a lot worse. It is a happy ending actually.

No it’s not !
The OP got screwed, period.
He should be able to call Ford Corporate and tell them what we ALL thought and Ford Corporate should be able to order a full refund for the entire service bill.
And that is that!

Idda told them to kiss my arse, not paid for the bullshit cleaning and took out an add in the paper telling about this rip off.
Idda been pissed.

 

[Exranger]

OP don’t beat yourself up over it. Yes they got you on this one. Luckily it is not long lasting. Education is your friend, awareness is even more helpful.

Watching YouTube videos after previewing the service estimate before taking your truck in next time will help prevent this.

Use the maintenance chart in the owners manual, if it’s not there…maybe not necessary.

 

[cyberdog]

Fuel System Service shouldn't be required at 10k miles, even if this was the first service. The Hybrid uses full synthetic, which should be able to handle that mileage. Most vehicles can go that far, just read the oil tests on Bob is the Oil Guy. - Not sure I'd have gone that far on the factory fill, since there does tend to be an initial break-in particles in the oil, along with any coatings used during assembly, but that's me.

PFI setups actually clean themselves, as well as the intake valves since the the gas is sprayed just above the valves. Just use top-tier gasoline, as opposed to the cheapest no-name gas, and an intake service shouldn't be necessary. By Top-Tier, that doesn't mean 93 Octane, it's the brand, which has sufficient detergent to keep the injectors & valves clean, regardless of octane rating. Top-Tier gases include the likes of Phillips 66, Conoco, Chevron, Shell, Exxon, BP, Texaco, Mobil, Costco, Arco, Citco, 76, and others.

Now the 22-24 Eco-Boost engines are much more affected by oil change intervals, and the overall oil than the Hybrid setups using Direct-Injection (DI), which spray into the cylinder vs onto the valves. Cleaning those intakes isn't really effective using the typical intake service, and usually requires blasting with walnut shells. - The 25 models should prevent that carbon buildup, utilizing a combination of FPI & DI (Port & Direct Injection). The DI gives the additional power/efficiency, the PFI the benefit of keep the valves cleaner, as the system shifts back and forth between the the injectors. (Toyota has done something similar for years, and it seems to work.)

I have trust issues, having seen people have 5W20, 5W30, or Synthetic Blends installed by dealers during service, rather than the 0W20 Full Synthetic recommended. End result is I drive mine up on ramps, craw under, and perform the service myself for maybe $30. - Granted I've doing my own maintenance for 45 years or so.

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

No it’s not !
The OP got screwed, period.
He should be able to call Ford Corporate and tell them what we ALL thought and Ford Corporate should be able to order a full refund for the entire service bill.
And that is that!

Idda told them to kiss my arse, not paid for the bullshit cleaning and took out an add in the paper telling about this rip off.
Idda been pissed.

Ad in the paper
That's like throwing money away.
People still read newspapers.

 

[Red Eyes - Wide Shut]

At 10k miles I would definitely go to my trusted mechanic instead of the dealer. When I do go I want the mechanic to take a hard look at all areas that have had or have known problems. Just to get a second opinion with no bias or a reason to overlook a possible issue as not a big deal.

 

[Probity]

How does waiting to change the oil until 10,000 miles (the factory recommendation) gunk up the port injectors? What is the mechanism that causes that to happen?

I ask because I don't really see the connection between a delayed oil change and gunk in the fuel system. Particularly when you are dealing with port injection into the intake manifold and not direct injection into the combustion chamber. These systems seem really separate to me in the absence of a structural failure.

(I'm not trying to get into an argument over this. I sincerely want to understand how this works.)

A fair question - if you take the statement literally ('gunk up port injectors'). I didn't, assumed was talking about port fuel injection system in general. Yeah there's the fuel system and the separate oil system. But they do converge at times. That 'worn out oil from a really long OCI' from below (the crankcase side into combustion chamber), and from the top (intake path/positive crankcase ventilation system). Definately worse in GDI systems.

Most interweb searches on this always focus on deposit formation in direct-injection systems (not what you or OP have). Yes deposit formation on port fuel injectors is mainly fuel related, dealt with accordingly. But there is an oil component to intake system deposits even in MPFI systems.

A couple links - first few are good in that the deposit formation mechanism description is kept pretty brief and not solely GDI-related, the last gets more into the weeds.
No Slide Title
Engine cleaning: Oil-based vs. fuel-based deposits – BG Products, Inc.
NAFTA_2014_4.indd

A drastic 'solution' in the Princeton prof's slide deck on how to prevent PFI system injector deposits forming - keep the engine running continuously.....

Think everyone agrees, trying to hypermile your OCI is not good practice for either type of system.

 

[JetFixxxer]

End result is I drive mine up on ramps, craw under, and perform the service myself for maybe $30. - Granted I've doing my own maintenance for 45 years or so.

Where you getting your oil from and filter? Or is that with the senior discount

 

[Cherokee]

Ad in the paper
That's like throwing money away.
People still read newspapers.

Us old farts do :XD

The point is to run the add. Copy and blow it up mail it to the dealer.
Then hand out flyers for a day.

Dam good idea !
I’ll sit right here in my easy chair and watch some Youngun run this stuff out.
I figure a fifty dollar bill might get a kid going.
If he’s not too fat, not a carb junkie :’P

 

[Glen Baker LLC]

Us old farts do :XD

The point is to run the add. Copy and blow it up mail it to the dealer.
Then hand out flyers for a day.

Dam good idea !
I’ll sit right here in my easy chair and watch some Youngun run this stuff out.
I figure a fifty dollar bill might get a kid going.
If he’s not too fat, not a carb junkie :’P

I'm 70.
We gave up on newspapers 7 years ago.
Newspapers thought they were going to die when radio came in and they thought that when TV came in, but they never counted on Craigslist and free classified ads. Newspapers made 34% or more of the revenue by screwing people over with overpriced classified ads and no pictures.
Well Screw Newspapers.

 

[Danhedonia]

I have some serious questions from this thread.

1. I've seen so many people talk about "calling Ford corporate" over the years. I've never, ever, been able to successfully reach a human the few times I've tried. Do people really ... talk to humans at Ford Corporate? How?

2. Aside from OP's (unfortunate) situation, where he approved the service, has anyone ever tried disputing the charge with their CC company, for fraudulent upsells?

 

[Chops]

I have some serious questions from this thread.

1. I've seen so many people talk about "calling Ford corporate" over the years. I've never, ever, been able to successfully reach a human the few times I've tried. Do people really ... talk to humans at Ford Corporate? How?

2. Aside from OP's (unfortunate) situation, where he approved the service, has anyone ever tried disputing the charge with their CC company, for fraudulent upsells?

The reason the service person has you sign the estimate is to avoid any disputes. You sign - you pay. You don’t sign - you can successfully dispute.

 

[Danhedonia]

The reason the service person has you sign the estimate is to avoid any disputes. You sign - you pay. You don’t sign - you can successfully dispute.

As a guy who only ever got free oil changes at dealership service dept's, I didn't know about signing.
I hate signing things at dealerships. Seriously. I'm a massive pain with the paperwork after closing on OTD pricing. I don't trust them for a half second.

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