Proposed federal yearly fee for Hybrids

[Prickly Pear]

Yeah, we used to be incentivized to drive economy cars as they saved you money and were better for the environment, now the government wants that money anyway. We used to be incentivized to save money, time and pollute less by carpooling and using the carpool lanes on the freeway. Now they let rich bastards that don't mind spending $15-$18 dollars to drive 20 miles faster do single occupancy in the former carpool lanes. The government will do anything to get your money and pretty much let you do anything if you are willing to part with enough of it.

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[hdufour]

Michigan is talking about it also. The problem is that they rely on gas taxes to pay for road repairs.
The feds already tax gas and diesel this just a way to make up for it.
If any of you youngsters are not aware you federal taxes on tires also. I don’t remember the excise taxes being removed. They are hidden much better than they used to be. Maybe I am wrong about the excise taxes. Didn’t we pay excise taxes on car batteries once upon a time?

MI isn't "talking about it" - they already DO it. I've been paying it on my CMax for years already. Now add my Mav to the mix. Thankfully its not horribly high fee, but its there on my registration cost every year.

And I quote from MI SOS website https://www.michigan.gov/sos/vehicle/license-plates

EV and PHEV fees are charged when renewing the registration of an EV or PHEV.
The fee will also be charged when a plate is transferred from a non-electric or non-hybrid vehicle to an electric or hybrid vehicle.

• The EV fee is $155 and is charged in addition to any regular registration fees. The EV fee for trucks and buses is $255.
• The PHEV fee is $57 and is charged in addition to the regular registration fees. The PHEV fee for trucks and buses is $127

 

[The Real Maverick]

nope - too many variables involved and too many would be driving around on bald tires as they don't want to /can't afford a new set along with the taxes.

Nope yourself.
No more than now.

People may opt for the 30,000 mile over the 80,000 mile at time of purchase.

But there are $100 tires now and $900 tires now.

Add approximately $90 tax every 4 to 5 years is easy.

Win - Win for everyone.

 

[SafetyGuy]

As much as I like the idea of taxing tires as it is a simple, elegant solution on the face of it, it would only have be paid when tires are replaced.

Only thing is, honest people may have to replace their tires...alot, and rims as well as they both would disappear off our trucks, cars when some one else needs them really bad.

See my prior posts #98 and #106, I believe.

Andy

 

[The Real Maverick]

As much as I like the idea of taxing tires as it is a simple, elegant solution on the face of it, it would only have be paid when tires are replaced.

Only thing is, honest people may have to replace their tires...alot, and rims as well as they both would disappear off our trucks, cars when some one else needs them really bad.

See my prior posts #98 and #106, I believe.

Andy

Naw.

You're kidding right?
I'm in the largest, densest populated cities. I haven't seen stolen tires in 40 years. 0.00001% chance.

If the fee is $90, and depreciated $15 to $30 per year, that's hardly incentive.

By your logic, inflation should be making tires disappear left and right.

Just won't be a thing any more than it is now.

 

[HenryFord]

I been looking at the tax credits that are going away and the only hybrids that qualified were PHEV. So I am leaning more and more toward the hybrid they speaketh of for this federal tax is the PHEV variety and not the non-plug in type.

 

[Sykotyk]

This entire discussion and tax plan is ridiculous.

The federal government, and state governments, already have an existing way to levy tax on use. If they goal is to get people to drive more efficient vehicles, it would behoove them to favor higher-efficient vehicles in taxes.

Decide how much next year's CAFE standards will be for all vehicles on the road. Figure out th estimated total cost of repairs, new construction, and emergency repairs for all roads in the jurisdiction.

Set the per gallon tax rate for gas/diesel/CNG/LNG at the rate that would cover those costs. People that keep driving the lower-efficient vehicles would bear the burden more while favoring adoption of more efficient vehicles.

No matter how much or how little high-efficiency and electric/alternative fuel vehicles are, there's still: Total Cost and Total Revenue that can still be calculated against the fuel taxes charged at the pump.

You wouldn't even need a rebate or other tax incentives to adopt electric, hybrid, or high-efficiency ICE vehicles. The cost savings in fuel and tax would far make up for it.

We're nowhere close to seeing diesel commercial vehicles leaving the road. Nor are we anywhere close to seeing current ICE vehicles leaving circulation for at last a decade or two regardless of increased per-gallon costs.

Let the least efficient bear the cost. As a lower and lower percentage of vehicles, covering the cost they'll too eventually switch to higher efficiency and zero-liquid fuel vehicles.

THEN you can begin to discuss a mileage cost or flat rate cost.



The one thing with the federal tax is that the federal highway fund doesn't cover every road but already currently charges you for the fuel you buy as if you did use federal roads for that fuel.

Just as state taxes assume you are using that gas inside the state. I live in Ohio. If I drive into PA, they get no taxes from me. Yet PA still calculates how much to charge at the pump to get the money needed to cover their expenses.

 

[h1k3rb]

When I traded my RAM Promaster van for the Maverick last month I was able to simply transfer the plate and registration with no change in fees until renewal time. Just checked the DMV site and there is a $120 charge for EV's and $60 for hybrids. Property tax is paid every year here but registration is every other year so $30 a year for hybrids isn't bad. Since Promasters are sold as cargo vans I had to pay an extra weight fee every year of about $60 so not sure if that gets prorated or not. I'll find out what the actual cost will be when renewal time comes for the Maverick in Aug. They get you on property tax in SC based on book value and I'm expected a $500-600 annual charge for that alone.

 

[Suzukiridr14]

It's just stupid. Why not charge extra for small displacement ICE? Or tax by miles driven? Why impose a flat tax at all ? If I have a hydrid and drive no miles Why should I pay road "wear and tear"

They should tax by the mile, I am retired, and drive 3 to 4K a year. Todays vehicles inform insurance companys how many miles a year you drive. EV's with bigger batterys weigh more then hybrids, and do more road damage, and get a free ride for doing it. Non plug in vehicles should all be treated the same way. Just because we squeeze a few more MPG driving locally, on the hyways, and interstate roads, we are equal in MPG as many other compact cars. By trying to save money by driving a hybrid, we will be paying more then our share for road usage then any other vehicles in our class..

 

[Suzukiridr14]

Naw.

You're kidding right?
I'm in the largest, densest populated cities. I haven't seen stolen tires in 40 years. 0.00001% chance.

If the fee is $90, and depreciated $15 to $30 per year, that's hardly incentive.

By your logic, inflation should be making tires disappear left and right.

Just won't be a thing any more than it is now.

That's because there was no reason to steal tires. If new tires have a $90 surcharge each, that's $360 for a set of 4, that would mean over 1K to put tires on your car! There will be lot's of tires with wheels on Craigs list for sale at bargain prices, no questions where they came from.

 

[Suzukiridr14]

My insurance company does not know my mileage. Cut rate insurance like Progressive? Maybe with their added tracker. But your proposal gives the federal government permission to track you at all times and tax you based on your mobility. Think about the slippery slope of creating a NEW agency and filing requirements. Maybe if you have exceeded your TAXED miles for the year they disable your vehicle remotely?

There is no taxed miles quoted for the year, you drive more, you pay more.

 

[22XLThybrid]

Pennsylvania has a tax on EVS but not hybrids at this point. I got a new title a couple years back changing my Fuel type to Gas and Electric from gas. Which is kind of dumb when you think about it. Because unless it's a plug-in hybrid, the fuel is all gas... But yes the roads.. So the federal would cover the federal state highway system + the state stuff covers the local roads. So it's not really double dipping. As vehicles have gotten more efficient, they've lost the highway dollars on top of that.

I see several news outlets stating that the new proposed budget passed by the house includes " a provision for the Federal Highway Administration to impose a $250 annual fee on all-electric vehicles and a $100 yearly fee for hybrid vehicles. "
Any idea how that would work? When I register here in washington, I thought all of the fees I pay are determined by and go to the state. No federal portion that I know about. Are there any current federal fees we all are paying when we register a car? Our legislature just upped the fee for the "privilege" of owning a hybrid. I'm guessing a federal fee would be added to whatever the state wants to squeeze out of us?

 

[Ih8thew82]

I agree in principle since I only drive ~6k MPY but if the fee helps to reduce the proliferation of potholes in NE Ohio I'm all for it.

 

[Headcase650]

They should kill the federal fuel tax. Feed the Federal highway fund with a new formula based on mileage driven and the weight of the vehicle for everyone. The means of propulsion should be irrelevant. A 3,500 lb vehicle that drives 10k miles a year should pay less than a 9,000 lb electric Hummer driving the same amount.

 

[HenryFord]

Where I live we already pay our registration/tags based on vehicle size, weight, classification. The issue is going to be the method used to track miles driven. GPS transponder data and all of that they have been floating for the tax by mile schemes in the states are a serious privacy issue and so much more. I would rather pay the flat fee than to open that can of worms.

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