Tuning the hybrid for greater efficiency

[Ranko Kohime]

Hello, new to the forums and the Maverick, but not hybrids, I have previously owned a ‘17 Prius. I am also one of *THOSE* people who ran dual ScanGauge II and obsessed over the little details of how the thing worked, and comparing the two, it seems like Ford left some efficiency on the table, and I am wondering if anyone has attempted to eek out what’s left.

For comparison with the Prius, steady state driving, ICE on, would have the engine between 95-98% load under most conditions, vs. the Maverick usually stays in the 70s, occasionally touching 80%, but I’ve never seen it higher. The HB as well seems to be babied, but that may be an illusion, as the SG III I am currently using reports both a standard PID for HEV Battery Amps, as well as an X-Gauge, which reads at half the amperage of the former.

I am curious if any tuning of the hybrid bits is possible using ForScan, and if so, has anyone done so? I’ve already done a few basic tweaks with it from the spreadsheet.

My Maverick is a ‘25 XLT, in case it doesn’t show in my profile

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[Tiger Dude]

The ICE at 95% load would have you driving around at 100 mph. Maybe you mean something else?

 

[HeyBales]

Hello, new to the forums and the Maverick, but not hybrids, I have previously owned a ‘17 Prius. I am also one of *THOSE* people who ran dual ScanGauge II and obsessed over the little details of how the thing worked, and comparing the two, it seems like Ford left some efficiency on the table, and I am wondering if anyone has attempted to eek out what’s left.

For comparison with the Prius, steady state driving, ICE on, would have the engine between 95-98% load under most conditions, vs. the Maverick usually stays in the 70s, occasionally touching 80%, but I’ve never seen it higher. The HB as well seems to be babied, but that may be an illusion, as the SG III I am currently using reports both a standard PID for HEV Battery Amps, as well as an X-Gauge, which reads at half the amperage of the former.

I am curious if any tuning of the hybrid bits is possible using ForScan, and if so, has anyone done so? I’ve already done a few basic tweaks with it from the spreadsheet.

My Maverick is a ‘25 XLT, in case it doesn’t show in my profile

Profile correct. Be aware many reading posts on mobile browsers miss that extra info, since if asking questions it's nice to throw that in like you did.

Greater efficiency?
Would that be for MPG then, just to confirm?

So is that Load% that will tell you the best MPG, or would rather best RPM band for the best HP or torque needed?
Are you thinking just change the gearing so the ICE runs under a higher load? That sounds like worse MPG.

Have you found the graph for this engine to see what those bands are?
Do you know what they were for the Prius as comparison?
Since Load% between the 2 might be an unlikely, though possible coincidental, match for MPG efficiency.

 

[Ranko Kohime]

The ICE at 95% load would have you driving around at 100 mph. Maybe you mean something else?

No, for a fixed work demand, increasing RPM reduces calculated engine load, while reducing RPM increases calculated load, up to the point that you reach 100% and then the engine bogs down. Since the eCVT can adjust gear ratio near infinitely within the upper and lower bounds, it can add load to the engine by decreasing gear ratio slightly, and as a consequence, RPM, requiring greater load on the engine to perform the same work.

 

[rk06382]

I am watching this thread. I also have a Hybrid.

P.S. Welcome to the Maverick Truck Club forum from Alaska!

Please post pictures of your new Maverick.

 

[Ranko Kohime]

Greater efficiency?
Would that be for MPG then, just to confirm?

So is that Load% that will tell you the best MPG, or would rather best RPM band for the best HP or torque needed?
Are you thinking just change the gearing so the ICE runs under a higher load? That sounds like worse MPG.

Have you found the graph for this engine to see what those bands are?
Do you know what they were for the Prius as comparison?
Since Load% between the 2 might be an unlikely, though possible coincidental, match for MPG efficiency.

That is not something I had thought of before, that the different engines may have significantly different power bands. I will admit to not having experience with Toyota's larger (and more directly comparable) A25A-FXS powertrain, so I don't know if it behaves similarly to the HF55.

 

[Tiger Dude]

No, for a fixed work demand, increasing RPM reduces calculated engine load, while reducing RPM increases calculated load, up to the point that you reach 100% and then the engine bogs down. Since the eCVT can adjust gear ratio near infinitely within the upper and lower bounds, it can add load to the engine by decreasing gear ratio slightly, and as a consequence, RPM, requiring greater load on the engine to perform the same work.

So you mean 95% speed (rpm). That isn't 95% load. Or you mean load vs. power/torque at a given rpm. A lawnmower or bulldozer runs at constant speed, but varyng load. Load is a function of how much power is requested. In it's simplest form it's the throttle position. The load on the system is governed more or less by the driver's foot.

 

[Darnon]

I am curious if any tuning of the hybrid bits is possible using ForScan, and if so, has anyone done so? I’ve already done a few basic tweaks with it from the spreadsheet.

FORScan doesn't really touch anything with powertrain performance.

 

[Ranko Kohime]

Currently in getting bed-liner, but I'll see about some pictures Wednesday or Thursday.

 

[AutobahnSHO]

High revs all the time would "sound dangerous" to people used to driving cars which try to stay under 2k RPMs. In fact there's a thread a month or two back where a guy had his Maverick in cruise and going down a hill it "sounded like it was going to explode". (LOL)

Ford wanted to balance: fuel economy, engine longevity, power, probably others.

 

[Ranko Kohime]

So you mean 95% speed (rpm). That isn't 95% load. Or you mean load vs. power/torque at a given rpm. A lawnmower or bulldozer runs at constant speed, but varyng load. Load is a function of how much power is requested. In it's simplest form it's the throttle position. The load on the system is governed more or less by the driver's foot.

No, I meant the calculated load value (generic PID 04) and/or absolute load value (generic pid 43).

Think of the same torque demand, of a fixed road speed, elevation, wind resistance, etc., but in a traditional powertrain. Downshift one gear, engine load reduces, RPM increases. Upshift one gear, engine load increases, RPM reduces.

 

[AutobahnSHO]

No, I meant the calculated load value (generic PID 04) and/or absolute load value (generic pid 43).

Think of the same torque demand, of a fixed road speed, elevation, wind resistance, etc., but in a traditional powertrain. Downshift one gear, engine load reduces, RPM increases. Upshift one gear, engine load increases, RPM reduces.

So I'm curious why you think Mav is running 70% load

 

[Ranko Kohime]

High revs all the time would "sound dangerous" to people used to driving cars which try to stay under 2k RPMs. In fact there's a thread a month or two back where a guy had his Maverick in cruise and going down a hill it "sounded like it was going to explode". (LOL)

Ford wanted to balance: fuel economy, engine longevity, power, probably others.

I wasn't referring to higher RPMs, but rather lower. But the Maverick in L, or even not in L, after a sustained downhill run that fills the battery to the pre-defined upper limit, will spin the engine up to as high as the redline for engine braking.

In my Prius, the same short block was also used in non-hybrid engines that had a 1k higher redline, so I had no concerns going down long hills with the engine screaming.

 

[Ranko Kohime]

So I'm curious why you think Mav is running 70% load

Generally when when my SG III reports 70% load, I tend to believe it.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

I believe the 70% value.

I’ll guess it is rarely below 50% as well.

My ICE shuts off at the drop of a hat. Even at highway speeds.

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