Signal processor for adding amplifier to base sound system

[Dodeboost]

In early March I had a local shop install a 5 channel amp, new speakers and a 10” sub in my ‘22 XL. They recommended line out converters instead of a dsp but now I’m second guessing that decision and looking to get rid of the loc’s and get a dsp. While it’s a large improvement over stock in terms of volume and bass, it’s lacking clarity and some of the high frequencies seem harsh.
Also have some alternator whine which may or may not be contributing to the muddy sound. Saw another thread on here where they solved the alternator whine by grounding the line out converter to the same location as the amp ground. Will be trying that as well.

Would something like a kicker Keyloc or jl fix86 be sufficient to clean up the signal from the stock head unit? Or should I be looking at a full blown dsp?
Current setup: Phoenix Gold mx800.5 amp, AXlocm-80 line out converters, Alpine s-s65c component speakers in front, Alpine s-s40 rears, Alpine SWT-10 sub.

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[colinl]

Ground faults are a pain but I wouldn't go buying new things just yet. This kind of noise usually is because of a bad ground, but it can be bad equipment. (I really don't get into board-level electrical repair, but one example is crosstalk from bad soldering or melted soldering from excessive heat.) If your truck didn't do this initially and it's cropped up recently it is definitely reasonable to expect your carfi installer to find and fix it. If you have added-on or modified work that they did, you probably should expect to get billed for this troubleshooting but if it's all them, I sure wouldn't pay.

If you want to trace it down yourself, here's what I would do if I were you. Based on your other threads/questions I believe, and mean no offense, that you're a little new to carfi but troubleshooting a ground fault isn't that hard if you have a multimeter and you know where all the grounds are located. Set your multimeter to 20V (or whatever is nearest to 12, but at least 15V) and check the battery first for a reference, say it's 12.4V and then check every component starting with the ones that you suspect the most, in this case, your amplifier. If you search YouTube there's a bunch of good videos. Make sure your amps are on, for example if you have it power-on sensing from signal, it may not be on if you're not playing music.

Half the fun is finding the grounds if you didn't install the system. While you're doing that, if you see that anything is terminated to the negative battery terminal I would suggest moving it or telling the installer to move it. The Maverick (and any other current-model Ford, and probably every current model car period) has a battery monitoring system and anything grounded to the battery terminal could interfere with the BMS readings.

Any ground should be on bare metal on a major portion of the chassis. If you make a new ground and fail to remove paint, this is pretty common. If you put a ground into a bracket because it's in easy reach, you have no idea how well that bracket is connected to the chassis *and* it's probably connected to a painted part of the chassis because modern vehicles are almost completely painted by robots for speed and rustproofing. It could also be a loose wire, loose bolt holding down the ground, or a ground that's too long. If you have other devices sharing the ground they could introduce noise to the amp, lights are especially known for this.

 

[SLAMOLOGIST]

I purchased the audio control LC6i for my install. I've had really good results with it on other vehicles. In my opinion it is the best bang for your buck for upgrading the sound.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

a few ways to do it:

get an amp with DSP processor built in: audiocontrol amps work great (PM me I may be able to help)
or put in a dsp in front of the current amp you have (i own a mx800.5)

The problem is the maverick radio doesn't have any EQ and gain level adjustments. This will clean up your sound for sure!

 

[colinl]

A good DSP is a game changer, totally agree.

But I would find and fix the alternator noise first, because otherwise it will still be there. I wouldn't be sure it's the line out converter.

 

[All4spl]

100% agree with the statements here, alternator whine is almost always a bad ground. Sometimes it can be because the speaker leads are ran down the same side of the vehicle as the main power wire which if the shop has good installers shouldn't be the case.

Additionally signal sense turn on leads have a tendency to introduce turn on thump, a true 12V switched turn on lead is really the best way to turn on the extra components (amps etc). Also, you could wire a relay into the mix to also help prevent turn on pop/thump. It is not hard, and here is a really good article on that itself.

https://www.the12volt.com/relays/relaydiagram25.html

 

[Dodeboost]

Ground faults are a pain but I wouldn't go buying new things just yet. This kind of noise usually is because of a bad ground, but it can be bad equipment. (I really don't get into board-level electrical repair, but one example is crosstalk from bad soldering or melted soldering from excessive heat.) If your truck didn't do this initially and it's cropped up recently it is definitely reasonable to expect your carfi installer to find and fix it. If you have added-on or modified work that they did, you probably should expect to get billed for this troubleshooting but if it's all them, I sure wouldn't pay.

If you want to trace it down yourself, here's what I would do if I were you. Based on your other threads/questions I believe, and mean no offense, that you're a little new to carfi but troubleshooting a ground fault isn't that hard if you have a multimeter and you know where all the grounds are located. Set your multimeter to 20V (or whatever is nearest to 12, but at least 15V) and check the battery first for a reference, say it's 12.4V and then check every component starting with the ones that you suspect the most, in this case, your amplifier. If you search YouTube there's a bunch of good videos. Make sure your amps are on, for example if you have it power-on sensing from signal, it may not be on if you're not playing music.

Half the fun is finding the grounds if you didn't install the system. While you're doing that, if you see that anything is terminated to the negative battery terminal I would suggest moving it or telling the installer to move it. The Maverick (and any other current-model Ford, and probably every current model car period) has a battery monitoring system and anything grounded to the battery terminal could interfere with the BMS readings.

Any ground should be on bare metal on a major portion of the chassis. If you make a new ground and fail to remove paint, this is pretty common. If you put a ground into a bracket because it's in easy reach, you have no idea how well that bracket is connected to the chassis *and* it's probably connected to a painted part of the chassis because modern vehicles are almost completely painted by robots for speed and rustproofing. It could also be a loose wire, loose bolt holding down the ground, or a ground that's too long. If you have other devices sharing the ground they could introduce noise to the amp, lights are especially known for this.

No offense taken! Prior to getting my maverick I had no experience with car audio other than swapping speakers. It always sounded like this, so I don’t anything anything has changed since the install. Nothing is grounded to the battery. The amp is mounted behind the back seat on the passenger side and it’s grounded right above it to a factory ground location, where something else is already grounded. So now I’m thinking whatever is grounded there may be causing the noise.
I recently got in touch with a family friend who used to be a pro installer, now electrical engineer. He’s currently looking over everything, making sure the amp is set up correctly etc. I hope to meet up with him this weekend and formulate a plan. Based on what I’ve read here the signal from the stock hu needs to be cleaned up before amplifying so I was just hoping to gain some insight on what kind of processor I should be looking at. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Dodeboost]

I purchased the audio control LC6i for my install. I've had really good results with it on other vehicles. In my opinion it is the best bang for your buck for upgrading the sound.

I’ve heard good things about those. Debating on one of those or a processor like the jl fix or Keyloc

 

[Dodeboost]

a few ways to do it:

get an amp with DSP processor built in: audiocontrol amps work great (PM me I may be able to help)
or put in a dsp in front of the current amp you have (i own a mx800.5)

The problem is the maverick radio doesn't have any EQ and gain level adjustments. This will clean up your sound for sure!

I’d like to avoid changing my amp if possible. I probably should have got a dsp amp initially.

 

[Dodeboost]

100% agree with the statements here, alternator whine is almost always a bad ground. Sometimes it can be because the speaker leads are ran down the same side of the vehicle as the main power wire which if the shop has good installers shouldn't be the case.

Additionally signal sense turn on leads have a tendency to introduce turn on thump, a true 12V switched turn on lead is really the best way to turn on the extra components (amps etc). Also, you could wire a relay into the mix to also help prevent turn on pop/thump. It is not hard, and here is a really good article on that itself.

https://www.the12volt.com/relays/relaydiagram25.html

The amp power wire is ran by itself down the drivers side, and the rca’s and amp outputs are ran down the passenger side, so I don’t think it’s that. I’m not sure where they’re getting the turn in signal, but right now my amp turns on if I just open my doors (ignition off). I do want to change this to something that turns on with the key.

 

[All4spl]

The amp power wire is ran by itself down the drivers side, and the rca’s and amp outputs are ran down the passenger side, so I don’t think it’s that. I’m not sure where they’re getting the turn in signal, but right now my amp turns on if I just open my doors (ignition off). I do want to change this to something that turns on with the key.

That is very likely signal sense, where the units turn on as soon as they sense signal on the speaker wires. The maverick keeps that signal on for a longer than I am comfortable time frame when exiting the vehicle. I highly recommend using a real switched 12v output, there are at least 3 fuses in the fuse panel on the passenger floor board that you can use a fuse tap on to add a 12v turn on lead to run to your units.

 

[Dodeboost]

That is very likely signal sense, where the units turn on as soon as they sense signal on the speaker wires. The maverick keeps that signal on for a longer than I am comfortable time frame when exiting the vehicle. I highly recommend using a real switched 12v output, there are at least 3 fuses in the fuse panel on the passenger floor board that you can use a fuse tap on to add a 12v turn on lead to run to your units.

Excellent, thank you! I’ll be doing this for sure.

 

[colinl]

Excellent, thank you! I’ll be doing this for sure.

the only drawback, but personally I think it's fine, is that when you use 12v switched fuse it will shut off instantly when you turn off the ignition.

when you're using signal sense it will stay on because the infotainment stays on until you open a door or the timer expires. (it's kind of long - 5 min? maybe 10.)

for your truck, if all speakers are through the 5 channel amp, it'll all shut off when you kill the ignition.

 

[Dodeboost]

the only drawback, but personally I think it's fine, is that when you use 12v switched fuse it will shut off instantly when you turn off the ignition.

when you're using signal sense it will stay on because the infotainment stays on until you open a door or the timer expires. (it's kind of long - 5 min? maybe 10.)

for your truck, if all speakers are through the 5 channel amp, it'll all shut off when you kill the ignition.

Got it. I’m fine with that. I’d rather have it turn on and off with ignition instead of turning on every time I open my door.

 

[Bsoute00]

1. You never needed a LOC as your amp accepts high level inputs, LOC can introduce noise.
2. If you have noise it is generally a faulty ground
3. Your amp does not have signal sensing, so you they have wired in a remote wire somewhere.
4. A DSP is not going to stop noise
5. A DSP is a great tuning tool but it is not as easy as I will buy one put it in and change the sound. You need to know how to tune with that DSP, not as simple as it may sound. To do a proper tune you need more than just a phone RTA and a tape measure. Tools for tuning include but not limited to RTA, REW and a calibrated mic or something like a JL max.
6. Generally running speaker wire, power/ground and signal wire together will not induce noise with modern install components now days. However it could but is unlikely.

With your limited audio install knowledge trouble shooting may be difficult.

You remove the LOC and wire in RCA ends directly to the speaker wires and take the LOC out of the chain, make sure to flip the switch on your amp to BAL (balance) for input per Phoenix Gold. I used the same ground location as you and have no noise, but I am high level input directly to amp.

Other have provided some good info for trouble shooting as also.

Good Luck.

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