Hybrid: which battery powers which systems? Is there a list?

[Darnon]

Devices/Systems Primarily Powered by the High-Voltage (HV) Battery

The HV battery drives the electric side of the powertrain and high-power components (often via electric motors or inverters). Key items include:

• Power steering, water pump, and other "beltless" accessories (electric versions in the hybrid).

The water pumps and power steering are all 12V, not HV.

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[doug maverick]

The water pumps and power steering are all 12V, not HV.

Obviously some disagreement here. I would be great if everyone providing factual statments about how this truck operates could Include a source so we can figure out which one is correct.

 

[HeyBales]

They run on the 12V system.

But they run when the truck is running, "Ready".
(or is power steering and power brakes there when not running?)

Therefore the 12V system is running off the DCDC converter at that time.

Radio good example.
Runs on the 12V system.
When in Accessory mode - power from the 12V battery.
Click over to On or Ready mode - power from the DCDC - which gets energy from the HVB, or from regen from the motors.

So it's very much a depends situation.
Except the AC compressor - HV system.
AC module - 12V system.

But that AI clip was wrong saying from the HVB, as if powered directly.
12V system kinda can be ultimately, but not the only source.

 

[doug maverick]

Saga continues. Installed a brand new AGM battery yesterday afternoon. Some interesting discoveries along the way:

Old Ford brand wet cell OEM battery was normally showing about 12.2 - 12.3 volts after resting, for past week and the truck kept going into battery save mode after sitting a few hours. I had driven the truck early that morning for about 100 miles, using auto headlights but in the dark. Before I disconnected the leads it was showing 12.35v.

Once on my bench, I checked the voltage again on that battery and surprised to see 12.58volts, which I never saw for the past week with it connected to the truck, even with everything off. Still could be a very weak battery, and they do recover some voltage when rested. I don't have a load tester, but I"ve seen old batteries that read 12.7 on a bench, only to drop quickly to 12.0 when a load is applied. I'm hoping that is the case here...

I installed the new AGM, did a battery sensor reset (took 3 tries to get the flashing battery confirmation), then locked the doors and left it over night. Will check things again this morning.

 

[SafetyGuy]

Saga continues. Installed a brand new AGM battery yesterday afternoon. Some interesting discoveries along the way:

Old Ford brand wet cell OEM battery was normally showing about 12.2 - 12.3 volts after resting, for past week and the truck kept going into battery save mode after sitting a few hours. I had driven the truck early that morning for about 100 miles, using auto headlights but in the dark. Before I disconnected the leads it was showing 12.35v.

Once on my bench, I checked the voltage again on that battery and surprised to see 12.58volts, which I never saw for the past week with it connected to the truck, even with everything off. Still could be a very weak battery, and they do recover some voltage when rested. I don't have a load tester, but I"ve seen old batteries that read 12.7 on a bench, only to drop quickly to 12.0 when a load is applied. I'm hoping that is the case here...

I installed the new AGM, did a battery sensor reset (took 3 tries to get the flashing battery confirmation), then locked the doors and left it over night. Will check things again this morning.

Sounds good, with a new battery installed things should be much better.

You didn't state it, so I will ask...before you did the Battery Sensor Reset etc (where the truck is told it has a new battery and to look for its new charging parameters), You fully charged the new AGM first (with an AGM friendly 4-5 amp smart charger) before doing the reset?

We want your battery to have its best chance for a long life.

Anyways, have a great day!

Andy

 

[doug maverick]

You didn't state it, so I will ask...before you did the Battery Sensor Reset etc (where the truck is told it has a new battery and to look for its new charging parameters), You fully charged the new AGM first (with an AGM friendly 4-5 amp smart charger) before doing the reset?

Yes. I charged it before even putting it in my truck. My AGM charger said "fully charged" as soon as I hooked it up, but I let it charge anyway until is went to 15v. The paperwork with the AGM battery said not to exceed 15v charging.

So, all seemed good this morning. Interior lights came one when I unlocked with the remote. When I turned truck ON, my cig lighter thing showed 12.5. As soon as I turned the key to the start position, it went to 13.2, and slowly dropped to 13v. It remained at 13v as I drove. I turned on the full headlights, and the voltage went to 14.6. Turned headlights off, it quickly went back to 13v. Same result when putting the fan at setting 6.

13v should be a nice maintenance voltage for an AGM.

Hope this solves the problem.

 

[SafetyGuy]

Yes. I charged it before even putting it in my truck. My AGM charger said "fully charged" as soon as I hooked it up, but I let it charge anyway until is went to 15v. The paperwork with the AGM battery said not to exceed 15v charging.

So, all seemed good this morning. Interior lights came one when I unlocked with the remote. When I turned truck ON, my cig lighter thing showed 12.5. As soon as I turned the key to the start position, it went to 13.2, and slowly dropped to 13v. It remained at 13v as I drove. I turned on the full headlights, and the voltage went to 14.6. Turned headlights off, it quickly went back to 13v. Same result when putting the fan at setting 6.

13v should be a nice maintenance voltage for an AGM.

Hope this solves the problem.

Wonderful, and great re-cap of what you did and also saw!

I only asked as many people can drop in, not read the thread and need to hear how important a complete (not a quickie) charge of the battery before installation (and then doing the reset procedure).

Cheers,

Andy

 

[doug maverick]

Wonderful, and great re-cap of what you did and also saw!

I only asked as many people can drop in, not read the thread and need to hear how important a complete (not a quickie) charge of the battery before installation (and then doing the reset procedure).

Cheers,

Andy

But, my cig lighter outlet - the one below the dashboard - remains live, even after I lock the doors and wait an hour. Is that normal? Is that cig light supposed to be always powered?

 

[HeyBales]

Up to 75 min for yours, 60 min for 25/26MY.
If you get into Forscan, you can reduce the timing.

The LED on it is likely a micro-drain of few mAmps, specs probably listed for it on box.

I will add - you've seen the thread by Mavster.
That voltage going from near 12.8 to 14.x V when you do headlights/fan/ect - means it's being charged back up to 100% SOC at that moment, meaning it wasn't there before.
When it drops from that 14.x back to 13.x/12.8 - then it's fully charged.
ETA: correction, amps will drop to nothing, voltage will still read high.

Don't settle on the 13.x while driving - that's how the battery will drop in voltage slowly but surely.
Figure out, as David suggested - at least an hour a week with the engagement to full charging.

You'll discover on yours how long it takes. Maybe at 15 min of headlight on it drops from 14.x to 12.8 - then you can turn headlights off.
Or maybe you have 1 longer drive a week you can leave fan speed 6 to do the same thing, make up for the week's worth of dropping voltage.
ETA: can't tell with voltage meter alone while driving. Need scanner or shunt battery monitor.

 

[BlueSpec1]

Obviously some disagreement here. I would be great if everyone providing factual statments about how this truck operates could Include a source so we can figure out which one is correct.

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

Yes. I charged it before even putting it in my truck. My AGM charger said "fully charged" as soon as I hooked it up, but I let it charge anyway until is went to 15v. The paperwork with the AGM battery said not to exceed 15v charging.

So, all seemed good this morning. Interior lights came one when I unlocked with the remote. When I turned truck ON, my cig lighter thing showed 12.5. As soon as I turned the key to the start position, it went to 13.2, and slowly dropped to 13v. It remained at 13v as I drove. I turned on the full headlights, and the voltage went to 14.6. Turned headlights off, it quickly went back to 13v. Same result when putting the fan at setting 6.

13v should be a nice maintenance voltage for an AGM.

Hope this solves the problem.

If you drive a least half your miles at night, and If you drive at least 45 minutes on a single start up most of the time, you will "probably" be fine with no special actions.

However, IF

you rarely drive at night
And/or
you rarely drive 45 minutes or more in a single session,

THEN run your full headlamps every time you drive (easy?) or bench charge to 100% once a month (takes more effort?).

Voltage at cigar lighter does not tell you much about your little 12v battery.
While driving you are reading the voltage of the DC/DC converter!

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

I will add - you've seen the thread by Mavster.
That voltage going from near 12.8 to 14.x V when you do headlights/fan/ect - means it's being charged back up to 100% SOC at that moment, meaning it wasn't there before.
When it drops from that 14.x back to 13.x/12.8 - then it's fully charged.

Don't settle on the 13.x while driving - that's how the battery will drop in voltage slowly but surely.
Figure out, as David suggested - at least an hour a week with the engagement to full charging.

You'll discover on yours how long it takes. Maybe at 15 min of headlight on it drops from 14.x to 12.8 - then you can turn headlights off.
Or maybe you have 1 longer drive a week you can leave fan speed 6 to do the same thing, make up for the week's worth of dropping voltage.

No no no!

When it drops from 14.x to 12.x volts that's when the system THINKS the battery it fully charged. And it stops charging.

BUT THIS IS FALSE / ERRONEOUS / PREMATURE SHUTOFF that is at the root of everyone's troubles.

Running the headlamps (or trailer) for 10 hours straight my DC/DC converter never went lower than 14.0 v.

This is the whole point of the headlamp trick: to override the erroneous premature shutoff point.

Your battery should be fine at 14v indefinitely. You won't overheat it or boil off any water. The amperage flow will be zero or close to zero. But the 14v PREVENTS LEAD SULFATE from forming.

This is the point.
Yes. I have seen the light.
Jesus H tap dancin' christ I have seen the light!

This BMS is faulty. But not killing anyone. So not recall worthy. But sub-optimal.

 

[doug maverick]

When it drops from 14.x to 12.x volts that's when the system THINKS the battery it fully charged. And it stops charging.

I'll check and see next time I'm on a long drive without headlights and see if it every drops down from 14x. With my old battery, it never did.

But the 14v PREVENTS LEAD SULFATE from forming.

I agree that 14.5 volts probably won't damage an AGM. As you say, it's really all about the amperage going into the battery. I don't have a shunt handy to measure amperage flow.

 

[HeyBales]

No no no!

When it drops from 14.x to 12.x volts that's when the system THINKS the battery it fully charged. And it stops charging.

BUT THIS IS FALSE / ERRONEOUS / PREMATURE SHUTOFF that is at the root of everyone's troubles.

Running the headlamps (or trailer) for 10 hours straight my DC/DC converter never went lower than 14.0 v.

This is the whole point of the headlamp trick: to override the erroneous premature shutoff point.

Your battery should be fine at 14v indefinitely. You won't overheat it or boil off any water. The amperage flow will be zero or close to zero. But the 14v PREVENTS LEAD SULFATE from forming.

This is the point.
Yes. I have seen the light.
Jesus H tap dancin' christ I have seen the light!

This BMS is faulty. But not killing anyone. So not recall worthy. But sub-optimal.

Corrected my post - I thought you had a pic where once it got to 100% SOC it dropped the volts. Obviously it was amps, but only amps.
Bummer - that does mean that voltage readout is not really useful on it's own while driving.
At least the morning resting gives some indication of battery direction.

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