Hybrid Issues - It's not just the Maverick, it seems

[Montana]

Ya'll ready for this?
The sad thing is that it's not just Hybrids either.

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[Gonzo chris]

Saturday morning musings:
The hybrid powertrain - actually combining two technologies ICE and EV - seems to be amazingly complex. My Mav is so smooth and quiet in electric mode. I look forward to an EV Maverick.

My hybrid Mav is more satisfying to drive compared to the 2011 Prius my wife had. The Ford eCVT is far superior to what was available in the 2011 Prius. [I hear Ford shares eCVT technology with Toyota]

Both my sons and my neighbors have EV's and have not had problems with the drivetrain. It has mostly been minor software issues. Just think, no oil and filter to change, no engine air filter, no exhaust system to replace. No tranny fluid to change. No direct injection issues. What will I do with all that extra time off from vehicle maintenance? Trade off for more tire wear. Range anxiety on the road.

I realize my climate in SoCal is just about ideal for EV battery life and I recognize others where it gets very cold or very hot will have a different experience.

Exactly, a lot of EV manufacturers have gone OTT making EVs a computer on Wheels. When if they would just make them a little more basic they would be extremely dependable.
Also, I think a lot of the issues with The EB will come down the road with carbon on the valves, transmission issues, turbo failure, etc. Hybrid more software and electronic related

 

[MetalsGeek]

Before this turns into a "let's all dump on the hybrid owners" thread, let's pause to appreciate that there is anecdotal information and there isstatistical analysis. We won't know the Maverick hybrid-ecoboost statistics for a few more years. Alas, auto reliability is something you only really know about in the rear view mirror. For every wise guy who says "my brand X sucked", there is a wise guy who will answer "My brand X was awesome". Anecdotes are the last refuge of math-challenged tongue-waggers.

Case in point. Honda. Us Boomers remember Honda reliability from the 80s, and it got burned into our brains like it was the 11th Commandment. And everyone kept going on about Honda quality early this century even as the brand's quality plummeted in the early 2000s (to the point where the Honda CEO got on a podium and apologized to the world). Point being - the past does not always predict the future (it does sometimes strongly hint, aka Toyota).

Another case in point - everyone on this forum loves dumping on the Hyundai/Kia group. That's because our quality impressions were formed when Kia/Hyundai entered the US market with absolute garbage. Update yourselves, because that group's product has improved dramatically, and they're now doing exceptionally well on quality (better each generation) and now easily lead Ford.

Hybrids by definition have two power trains, along with the associated complexity. Any engineer will cringe at the very idea of a hybrid. Doesn't mean they can't make customers very happy while they work. Doesn't mean engineers (Toyota) can't make them very reliable (for a long while). But eventually the basic rule of automotive engineering rears its ugly head - "complexity is the mortal enemy of long-term quality and reliability".

So the takeaway is none of us know if the Maverick hybrid is a reliability gem, or a disaster, or a reliability gem that just had some toothing pain. We'll know after it's been on the market a decade and we can objectively look back at the fleet experience. BTW, same for us Ecoboost owners.

One other thing that deserves mention is the difficulty of modifying software written by someone else without introducing bugs. This issue grows exponentially with time, the size of the committee managing the architecture, system complexity, and (of course) time/budget constraints. The Maverick has 5 separate CAN buses supporting about 30 networked devices. As a simple example, anyone who's used MS Paint since the Windows XP era will tell you that many, many bugs came with the new features.

 

[HoiToid]

F ix
O r
R epair
D aily
That goes back to '60's & '70's (also while the Chevy/GMC pickups were rusting out in the wheel wells and under cab sides) .
Seems like no vehicle is perfect, so just hope for the best

 

[dldjtad]

(F)ound
(O)n
(R)oad
(D)ead

Fix Or Repair Daily!

 

[CurtisB]

Before this turns into a "let's all dump on the hybrid owners" thread, let's pause to appreciate that there is anecdotal information and there isstatistical analysis. We won't know the Maverick hybrid-ecoboost statistics for a few more years. Alas, auto reliability is something you only really know about in the rear view mirror. For every wise guy who says "my brand X sucked", there is a wise guy who will answer "My brand X was awesome". Anecdotes are the last refuge of math-challenged tongue-waggers.

Case in point. Honda. Us Boomers remember Honda reliability from the 80s, and it got burned into our brains like it was the 11th Commandment. And everyone kept going on about Honda quality early this century even as the brand's quality plummeted in the early 2000s (to the point where the Honda CEO got on a podium and apologized to the world). Point being - the past does not always predict the future (it does sometimes strongly hint, aka Toyota).

Another case in point - everyone on this forum loves dumping on the Hyundai/Kia group. That's because our quality impressions were formed when Kia/Hyundai entered the US market with absolute garbage. Update yourselves, because that group's product has improved dramatically, and they're now doing exceptionally well on quality (better each generation) and now easily lead Ford.

Hybrids by definition have two power trains, along with the associated complexity. Any engineer will cringe at the very idea of a hybrid. Doesn't mean they can't make customers very happy while they work. Doesn't mean engineers (Toyota) can't make them very reliable (for a long while). But eventually the basic rule of automotive engineering rears its ugly head - "complexity is the mortal enemy of long-term quality and reliability".

So the takeaway is none of us know if the Maverick hybrid is a reliability gem, or a disaster, or a reliability gem that just had some toothing pain. We'll know after it's been on the market a decade and we can objectively look back at the fleet experience. BTW, same for us Ecoboost owners.

Scott Asheville
Really appreciate your write up!!
Very well written and explains a lot to us. Let me say, aside from all the issues seen regarding the Maverick (both Hybrid and Eco) I really enjoy driving mine. It's everything I wanted in a truck.

1. It fits in my garage!
2. I've already used it for Homedepot runs, a furniture store, bookstore and to help my son and daughter move.
3. I get in and out of the Maverick so much easier than crawling out of today's cars. My Prius was a pain in the rear to "climb" out of!! Am I the only one who dreaded getting out of a coupe or sedan? (turn, lift legs, grab door, pull yourself up and out!).
4. Getting out of the Maverick is like stepping out of a Minivan, just open the door and turn!!
5. The mileage is to die for! I mean come on guys, even the Ecoboost kicks butt on the average truck out there!
6. The bed is just the right size to do the things I want to do!
7. Insurance for me was not an issue. Went up $22 dollars month!! Whoop-dee-do!
8. And we can all say it's a hell of a head turner to drive!! People at the gas station always find something bad to say about it, until I till them it'll be at least 2 to 3 weeks before I need to gas up again.

I grew up when mini-trucks were the rave!! Throw the surf board in the back and head to the beach! Through the ski's in the back and head to the mountains. Slam (lower) the trucks and head to Whittier blvd to cruise. Mini trucks soon dissappeared and were replaced with 4 x 4 monster trucks. The bigger the better!! Then along came the Maverick as a hybrid!! Gotta love it!!

 

[HughdMan]

my 22 XLT HYB has been nothing short of fantastic-22K miles and 45-48 MPG-guess I got a good one

My '23 XLT Hybrid has also been trouble-free so far. The odometer just rolled over 20K. I am averaging 42mpg in the mountains commuting 39 miles each way. I think I was "trained" how to drive my Mav to maximize mpg by my previous daily-driver- a 2014 Chevy Volt PHEV. I try to never exceed 20% power when accelerating, brake early at intersections and us cruise control all the time (once I have accelerated). Before that my daily driver was am '07 Tacoma 4-door 4x4. 17mpg empty or full was disappointing. The low roof made it a pain to get in and out of, and the bed is only 6" longer than the Mav. I've hauled 1400lbs of lumber, towed a trailer full of farm implements, hauled 2 loads of topsoil and one load of gravel. Next week I have planned a 2,000 mile road trip. I am, for now, a very happy camper.

I keep hoping Ford will announce a Mav PHEV. I'm convinced the small hybrid batter hurts my overall mpg since it only benefits from the 1st mile or so of the "descending side" of the mountains I cross.

 

[bjwnet397]

This morning I was talking to our police chief following a budget meeting and we started to talk about cruisers. It turns out he tried to save the town some money by purchasing a couple of Ford hybrid PIU cruisers and they've been nothing but trouble. One of them is currently down and has been at the Ford dealer for a month. He was driving another and it just died on him in traffic. He needed help from another officer to get it off to the side of the road. Consequently, he's shifting all cruiser purchases back to gas only, especially now that they are also less expensive to purchase than hybrids. He finally ended up snagging a used gas cruiser from another town so he can have a spare to cover the hybrids being out of service.

As he was talking about his cruiser woes, I was replaying posts from MTC in my head describing similar problems. Ford clearly has some work to do in the hybrid space.

I am convinced Ford is having a Mexican QC issue

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