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AutobahnSHO

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Yeah the "easy" solution is set (legal, reviewed by lawyers) rules for dealers- if they get reports from customers that dealers are not treating customers according to the rules, investigate. If they break the rules- don't sell the dealer vehicles.

There are generally enough dealers across the country that customers could still find a different one within reasonable distance to get service. Ford would have to pay a lot of lawyer money for lawsuits, but long-term the brand would be better for it.
 

Joseph Cobbs

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Personally, I love the idea of Ford offering a direct to consumer option. Once I order the vehicle, it would be mine and not the dealers which would mean no unnecessary add-ons or dealership marketing decals. Unfortunately, there is far too much greed and dishonesty among dealers today. I realize there are amazing dealers out there, especially those found on this forum, but there simply aren't enough of them. The pandemic has definitely played an impact on vehicle pricing and availability, but its time to make changes in how we purchase and order vehicles because there are too many people out there looking to take advantage of others during difficult times. It's time to put them on notice. Will any of this ever happen? With laws and contracts already in place, probably not anytime soon. Let's just hope Ford sticks to their promise.
 

Joseph Cobbs

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I am a huge Ford fan, I have owned 3 Mustangs, and a 2013 Ford F150 with the 5.0l motor, a great truck. I built a GT-40 replica from ERA on the east coast. I was an international teacher and I finally sold my vehicles after paying regeneration and insurance on my Mustang, Gt-40, and F150 got old after 6 years away from the country. I live in Puerto Rico now. I needed a truck but not for towing. I am a car enthusiast so I knew about the maverick long before they were taking orders. I tried to order one in June of 2021 from 4 different dealerships here on the Island. It took a few months and several visits to get an order put in by a dealership here in Puerto Rico. The dealers told me that I would pay about 6,000 to bring it to P R for shipping and other corrupt Government fees. After waiting for 11 months I finally did get my Maverick Hybrid. I love the truck! The dealership wanted 39 thousand for a truck with a sticker price of 25,100. There were 2 dealerships involved one in Miami, Metro Ford, and one here in PR. I was expected to pay about 31 k but I negotiated from 39 k down to 37 thousand dollars. Needless to say, I was very disappointed, Not is Ford because they are really smart to develop this truck Hybrid for 25 k., but in the dealership situation.
 

Joseph Cobbs

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I meant to say that after talking several times with the dealerships I was expecting to pay around 31 k for my maverick XLT hybrid. When the truck finally got here after 11 months they were asking 39 k which was the mark up from 2 dealerships. At the time no dealerships could order a hybrid here in Puerto Rico last summer. They had to have it sent to Florida Dealer and then over to a dealership here in P R. I paid over 37 k for a truck that I could have bought in the other states for 25 k. Now 6,000 was just for the fees associated with getting it to Puerto Rico from Florida and into this country with all their fees. In the end, I paid an additional 6,000 in dealership mark-up and another 6,000 to get it here on the Island.
 

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Decayed

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Ok, so a lot to unpack here. So I'm going to split the issues.

"Unionism" isn't a thing. There are no "unionist" political parties or politicians in the US. And unions are supported by member dues, not taxpayer money. A teacher's wages and the union union dues deducted from them are no longer taxpayer money once the teacher has been paid. The fact that you seem to consider them to still be taxpayer money, has some really troubling implications.

"School choice" and school vouchers solve no problems. Every state has hundreds of religions schools, and parents send their kids to them by the tens of thousands. And sure, their kids outperform public school kids.

What you're not seeing is that the public schools *have* to accept all students in their district. Not so with religious schools. They get to pick and choose only the best and the brightest kids, and have no geographic boundaries. They also only take kids with parents rich enough to afford them. When you have one group that can pick and choose, and another that has to take everyone, the picky group will always outperform.

Now, you mentioned vouchers? No voucher is going to cover full tuition at a religious school. Again, there's large numbers of kids those religious schools don't want. So while that voucher will cover a kid going to their neighborhood public school- which only gets tax dollars from the neighborhoods its zoned to- religious schools will make sure it will never cover full tuition. Ever.

I went (more like, was forced to go) to a Christan school, and I got stuck working as a substitute teacher for almost exactly ten years. I've seen how it all fits together. There's a whole lot more that I probably should be going into, but this is getting close to the limits of civility for a truck board and I don't want to piss off the moderators.

I'm going to set this thread on ignore/unwatch once I've clicked the post button. I don't know which way the moderators lean, and I really don't want to find out.
What's troubling is that you don't have any problem with taxpayers being forced to fund unionized public schools. There is no competition for tuition dollars. My kids went to a catholic school. If you couldn't afford full tuition they were happy to put you to work cleaning and paintin to round out the tuition. That school did more with less, the kids thrived and virtually the entire class went to college.

You trot out all the tired excuses for why things can never change but they can and should. My guess is you are a teacher or union member. But you won't see it because your mind is closed. What a shame.
 

MakinDoForNow

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Sorry it sounds like the dealer doesn't want the dealership model either based on what you're saying? And they can just be a showroom, maybe even with a referral fee, instead? Since it could streamline logistics and make things cheaper for Ford, the dealer, and the customer?

If you're acting as a showroom instead of a point of sales, you can have a smaller space, fewer employees, and a lower light bill. If you're offered a referral fee or similar, you can still get some money out of it and since you're being great and doing it all for less than $1k now, despite all your costs, that seems good. And for the customer, they get a less stressful purchase process and avoid the times where dealers turn that <$1,000 number to $5000-$10000.

Since you've worked in a grocery store before and probably purchased from one, you know logistics can be different for the scenario where you need to buy a variety of items weekly than when you need to buy one item every 6 years.
Aaarrrggghhh!!! It just came to me! Someone could open a dealership without any lights and advertise "Come buy your vehicle in the DARK. You will not see any funny business done here"!
 

Decayed

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You contradicted yourself when you said not all unions are bad, but unionism leads to authoritarianism. Open shops are led by authoritarians who preach safety unless it costs them money.

Less than 10% of the workforce is organized. Most union bashers have never been part of an organized workforce. Teachers are in the profession because they want to make a difference in spite of complaints from students, parents and administrators. Their organized representatives give them some job security, but nothing great.

Side topic aside and getting back to the thread title; Jim Farley knows about the 10% of dealers who's ADM's are out of control. The three strike rule and name match policies are in place. Getting old school sales managers to change their tactics is a long winding road. Impulse buying customers have enabled ADM's.

Customers who plan ahead pay MSRP (or less) with MTC knowledge, a preview order and a co-signed buyer's order. Those customers also screened dealers ahead of time to avoid the long winding road that ended with a dead end (ie, unconfirmed COVP/ROVP, "lost orders", dealers playing dumb about price protection, damaged in transit claims and related poor communication tactics/techniques).
When I said not all unions are bad, I was referring to situations where there is a single large employer with no competition. Unfortunately this is the case with government provided services such as public education. Competition is necessary to ensure a healthy market for services which is why single providers and monopolies are always bad. In cases where there is no choice due to a monopoly (government owned or otherwise) a union is sometimes the only check on abuses. But the better solution is competition.

As for Farley, he can say whatever he wants but some states make direct to consumer sales illegal and force the manufacturers to go through dealers. Not much he can do without changing state laws.
 

cavemold

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When I said not all unions are bad, I was referring to situations where there is a single large employer with no competition. Unfortunately this is the case with government provided services such as public education. Competition is necessary to ensure a healthy market for services which is why single providers and monopolies are always bad. In cases where there is no choice due to a monopoly (government owned or otherwise) a union is sometimes the only check on abuses. But the better solution is competition.

As for Farley, he can say whatever he wants but some states make direct to consumer sales illegal and force the manufacturers to go through dealers. Not much he can do without changing state laws.
This . Congress has to get involved and states have to agree to it
 
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dbmurray

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I would like to see new car dealerships transform from dealers to showrooms and delivery companies.

It would be nice if I could just could buy from Ford directly but still take delivery through a dealership. Even if I go to the dealership to place the order, they'd just walk me through the process as I order direct from Ford...I order from Ford, set up financing via Ford, pay Ford, etc.

Ford could then pays the dealer a fixed percentage or royalty based on the details of my order for their part in the sales process. There could be a discount to me, for example, if I ordered from home rather than using dealer-assisted ordering. The only time I'd pay the dealer directly for anything would be for service or for parts (or obviously, if I bought a used vehicle).
 

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Would we really want a "Amazon" style shopping for vehicles? Id still like to test before committing personally. Maybe it's the new wave of buying cars now...what happens if it comes damaged or you don't like it? Can you send it back like Amazon? Time will tell in the next few years.
 

TyPope

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Would we really want a "Amazon" style shopping for vehicles? Id still like to test before committing personally. Maybe it's the new wave of buying cars now...what happens if it comes damaged or you don't like it? Can you send it back like Amazon? Time will tell in the next few years.
Kind of like Tesla's online sales with no haggling. You pick up your car at a Delivery Center which, I suppose, could be a stand-in for a dealer except they are the same company. Maintenance is either through the Tesla Road Rangers who come to your car or at the nearest maintenance facility.
 

Bob The Builder

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Personally, at my age I would prefer to deal with a dealer. For the same reason i would not want to buy a $8,000 24KW Generac from Amazon, I would not want to buy a vehicle "mail order" as we used to call it before internet. I realize the warranty is supposed to be honored by all of them, but I believe a good honest dealer will go the extra mile for you as they did for my wife with the moisture intrusion issue she had with her LED headlight housings.

Maybe I am just being old fashioned but it is what I would prefer.
 

AutobahnSHO

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Would we really want a "Amazon" style shopping for vehicles? Id still like to test before committing personally. Maybe it's the new wave of buying cars now...what happens if it comes damaged or you don't like it? Can you send it back like Amazon? Time will tell in the next few years.
Amazon is an example of the right way to do business- you can drop off an item (unboxed) at any UPS place or the box at Khol's or just mail it back to them.

I *would* like to test-drive something first but look at how many bought Mavs this year without one.
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