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Notacar

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Amazon is an example of the right way to do business- you can drop off an item (unboxed) at any UPS place or the box at Khol's or just mail it back to them.

I *would* like to test-drive something first but look at how many bought Mavs this year without one.
Lots of people with issues that I've seen as well. Everything from cosmetic like the roof drip molding to mechanical issues. If and when I order one, I'm hoping those issues are no more.
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I have noticed that many of these posts fail to specify the dealer. I am starting to wonder if the forum frowns on doing this. Although I have seen dealers mentioned in other posts. Or if the poster is just full of it. If I got screwed I would certainly let everyone know who the offender is.
Honolulu Ford (Lithia)
 

2022EOW

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Dealers need love too :love:

Would you rather the employees of all dealerships were on unemployment instead? Back in the 1980s 1 in 7 jobs in the USA was related in some form to the US automobile industry. Most required no higher education and many were unionized with great wages and benefits. Now I believe it is less than 4 related jobs and people are constantly claiming there are no good Blue Collar jobs to support families anymore. Be careful what you wish for.
Yes I would? Middlemen don't work well with the auto industry. Just adds another layer of costs. The dealership employees can go build cars, because demand will go up as price comes down from cutting out the middleman.
 

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I was promised a jetpack in the future. Where's my jetpack?
 

999

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Robots build cars these days.

Yes I would? Middlemen don't work well with the auto industry. Just adds another layer of costs. The dealership employees can go build cars, because demand will go up as price comes down from cutting out the middleman.
 

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Yvonne Federowicz

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Dealers need love too :love:

Would you rather the employees of all dealerships were on unemployment instead? Back in the 1980s 1 in 7 jobs in the USA was related in some form to the US automobile industry. Most required no higher education and many were unionized with great wages and benefits. Now I believe it is less than 4 related jobs and people are constantly claiming there are no good Blue Collar jobs to support families anymore. Be careful what you wish for.
A lot of those jobs were manufacturing, steel industry and such. I grew up in Pittsburgh during the time that U.S. Steel was moving mills to other countries. Dealers are a tiny number of people compared to what U.S. manufacturing used to be, sadly.

Industries are always evolving, it's hard on people. I'd hope that people involved in dealerships could find employment in a setup that doesn't include price gouging whenever there is a supply chain problem though!!! $45K for a Maverick around here! Oh and houses are being bought for cash by ultra-wealthy investors around here, then "flipped" to real families for higher prices.

I'm all for *honest* professions; some might argue that people deserve whatever they can get -- I don't agree.
 

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Small thing but I notice vehicles from Texas and other states with the dealer logo (sometimes more than 1) on the paint and license plate frames. In California that simply doesn’t happen. License plates yea but that’s it. Sorry for the sidebar…..please continue with more important discussions 👍
why do you think is that?
maybe in CA people are more stylish and see those logos corrupting the beauty of the car?
I am going to remove my plate frame this weekend !
 

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Then maybe. We can cut out those “greedy” grocery stores marking up milk. Those “greedy” department stores marking up clothes and shoes. And those “greedy gas stations marking up fuel. We’ll show all those greedy jerks that were on to their scams.
monopolies are great for who has them.
Would you agree that the car dealership business did not show the same increase in efficiency than the other sectors you listed?
The days of going to a dealership to discover what a vehicle has to offer are also long gone.
what are we going to do about it?
 

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I bought a new car for fixed price a few years ago through COSTCO's buying service. No haggling, decent treatment. I'm sure there are others like that available.
I bet that if you go in your paperwork you will find that you did not buy it from Costco but from a dealer. Costco acted as middle man of the middle man. The good thing was being able to buy it at a clear price without any hassle.
 
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monopolies are great for who has them.
Would you agree that the car dealership business did not show the same increase in efficiency than the other sectors you listed?
The days of going to a dealership to discover what a vehicle has to offer are also long gone.
what are we going to do about it?
Those days are gone for those who are interested in learning everything for themselves. As I’ve said in the past. The vast majority of people I sell to year in and year out want to be helped by a knowledgeable salesperson, of which I happen to be. Certainly if forced to order from home, they could manage, but they by a factor of more than 10-1 simply don’t want to.
You asked about car dealer efficiency compared to other industries I’ve mentioned. Some sell at nearly cost. Others at well over MSRP. Some push every back end product and finance option they can dream of, while other are much less aggressive. Car sales are no different than any other business. These forums are heavy populated with do it yourselfers. The traditional buyers have no reason to argue on here, their not trying to convince anyone of anything because they don’t care. I get amused by those on here that get angry with me for describing the facts of my customers feelings as told to me by them and my actual experiences. The vocal minority on these sites are welcome to order their Taco Bell, groceries and cars from their couches and have them dropped at their doors. For the rest, the traditional way is not so bad.
 
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MLowe05

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Car sales are no different than any other business.
Traditional dealer car sales are quite different than other businesses. You don't go to Best Buy and negotiate the price of a washing machine. Or go to an Apple store and negotiate the price of your new iPhone. You don't have to wonder if your new washing machine is going to have $900 worth of all weather floor mats you don't want, and you don't face off with a finance guy. They don't advertise it for $999 but then put a "limited inventory" addendum sticker on it for another $499 that you can negotiate down to $299. If you want to go into the store and consult with a salesman about your washing machine needs, you can do that. But then you pay the price that is advertised and go on about your day.

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that car sales are no different than other things. Thank goodness that is completely false. Living in a world where every business transaction mirrored car sales would truly be hell on earth.
 
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Traditional dealer car sales are quite different than other businesses. You don't go to Best Buy and negotiate the price of a washing machine. Or go to an Apple store and negotiate the price of your new iPhone. You don't have to wonder if your new washing machine is going to have $900 worth of all weather floor mats you don't want, and you don't face off with a finance guy. They don't advertise it for $999 but then put a "limited inventory" addendum sticker on it for another $499 that you can negotiate down to $299. If you want to go into the store and consult with a salesman about your washing machine needs, you can do that. But then you pay the price that is advertised and go on about your day.

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that car sales are no different than other things. Thank goodness that is completely false. Living in a world where every business transaction mirrored car sales would truly be hell on earth.
Other than Apple and Tesla, there are few things on earth that you can’t shop around for and pay different prices for at different retailers for the exact same item. You can also be treated quite differently from one retailer to the next. I realize that you’ve resigned yourself to hate the car buying experience and predetermined that you’ll be treated poorly or unfairly. I believe that’s called a self fulfilling prophecy. A glass half empty life must be quite sad indeed.
 

MLowe05

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Other than Apple and Tesla, there are few things on earth that you can’t shop around for and pay different prices for at different retailers for the exact same item. You can also be treated quite differently from one retailer to the next. I realize that you’ve resigned yourself to hate the car buying experience and predetermined that you’ll be treated poorly or unfairly. I believe that’s called a self fulfilling prophecy. A glass half empty life must be quite sad indeed.
You have the exact attitude one would expect from a car salesman. Of course there will be different prices at different retailers for the same said washing machine. But you still won't be negotiating it, there won't be BS markups, and there won't be a finance guy pressuring you.

None of us "resign" ourselves to hating the car buying experience, nor do we "predetermine" that we'll be treated poorly. Car dealerships - and their salesmen - condition us to hate the experience.

You are in the minority in your defense of this industry and the regard in which you hold your fellow salesmen - regardless of what you say about your particular customers. It might not be this year or this decade, but eventually this very broken business model will be revamped. And it can't come soon enough.
 
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You have the exact attitude one would expect from a car salesman. Of course there will be different prices at different retailers for the same said washing machine. But you still won't be negotiating it, there won't be BS markups, and there won't be a finance guy pressuring you.

None of us "resign" ourselves to hating the car buying experience, nor do we "predetermine" that we'll be treated poorly. Car dealerships - and their salesmen - condition us to hate the experience.

You are in the minority in your defense of this industry and the regard in which you hold your fellow salesmen - regardless of what you say about your particular customers. It might not be this year or this decade, but eventually this very broken business model will be revamped. And it can't come soon enough.
I couldn’t agree more that I’m in the minority when in comes to enjoying the work I do, the product I sell and the customers I meet and help. Most glass half emptyers could never enjoy such things.
 

CTYankee

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I couldn’t agree more that I’m in the minority when in comes to enjoying the work I do, the product I sell and the customers I meet and help. Most glass half emptyers could never enjoy such things.
Like others here, I've bought many vehicles via the traditional dealer sales model. Depending on the dealer, it can really suck. Or it can be painless and maybe even pleasant. It usually is the salesman and the finance office that determine which experience a customer will have.

Large, high-volume dealerships are almost always a pressurized transaction with a strong sense that, as a customer, you have to watch every move and examine every document carefully for hidden fees or change-ups on agreed points.

If the sales rep comes out of the showroom immediately to engage with you and comes across like a character from Good Fellas, it's probably not going to be a pleasant experience. But if he or she is relaxed and dressed somewhat casually, that's a good sign, at least for me.

My wife hates going into a dealership. Most women I know hate it, so there's a reason you're seeing the interest in Amazon-style car shopping and ordering. It has nothing to do with seeing the glass as half empty.

You're probably the exception to the rule, but it's the rule that's going to determine the future of the dealership model. They're either going to turn the exception into the rule or they're going to have a new future forced on them.

The legislators that protect the dealer model are going to be replaced by younger ones who've come of age in the Amazon/Tesla world. They aren't going to be sympathetic to maintaining the status quo, more than likely, unless the status quo is one that people want to keep.
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