Bait and switch

[reciprocating_ravioli]

Most people who ordered hybrids knew that they would have a long wait. Most people who ordered 23s knew when they submitted that there would be more demand than supply

You are severely biasing your assumption to limited interactions on this forum.

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[IndyChill]

Not by definition but I absolutely believe they don't want to build and sell all XL Hybrid orders they received. And I believe it is because of the small profit margin. Based on MY22 orders, they knew MY23 orders for that model would have a huge demand. Yet they only allowed a miniscule amount of their capacity to be that model. Typical corporate manipulation and greed.
Inexpensive and fabulous gas mileage is the only reason I put a deposit down. Also knowing my chances of getting one was slim to none.
If I get one I will be very very happy and my above opinion will not change. I also will feel sorry for all the people that got screwed.
This is my opinions please don't ask me to prove them. I have no intention of doing so.

 

[Impetus19]

Not just maverick. We looked into multiple manufacturers and only ones that had any type of hybrid in decent supply was Kia and Hyundai. Reason for that is they are junk.
I personally think our world stage set by our lousy leadership set this up to fail. Write your congressman, good luck

My rav4 hybrid wait time was 2 months. I gave Ford a 2 month head start and they couldnt so much as give me a schedule date in that time.

 

[Redneck Garage]

How many average priced cars does Ford sell for $22,000??????

Its really math and averages - to break it down - Ford’s gross margin on automotive in 2017 was roughly 10%, and their profit margin (before taxes) was roughly 5%. Certainly there are other factors such as the price of raw materials rising, transportation costs but that's their goal. Lets say this then if it helps - for every average priced car that Ford sells for about $40,000 , they make $4000 as gross margin.

 

[ViperAir]

No.
- Its not bait and switch, that literally makes no sense.
- What evidence do you have that the hybrid is not profitable? The sticker on my Lariat says otherwise
- Anyone that didn't have their head in the sand knew they were struggling to meet hybrid demand at least a year ago
- Don't understand what an untenable option is? What are you talking about?
- "Ford stands to make a bundle"?? On what? Selling an ECOBoost instead of a hybrid?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Ford makes less on the hybrid than the ECO, and less on the XL than the Lariat. That's kinda the industry price model. Labor cost is almost the same across the product line... The money is made with the options...

 

[Timothyd]

Anyone else think Ford’s ordering process borders on a bait (Hybrid) and switch (Eco)? The hybrid is a cheap and probably not a very profitable model. It drew us in. Now, we’re told they can’t deliver, and we’re given an untenable option. Ford stands to make a bundle.

I took the bait but didn't switch. I agree it might not be that profitable and maybe that's why the slow production.

 

[Michaelkov]

An order is a request it isn't a guarantee of delivery.

 

[Old Ranchero]

Thank you for clarification. What I was going by is if you go to the 2023 build site and start from scratch, I can do a Lariat Hybrid with Luxury and CP pkg only, then do the same truck with an EB engine, and the bottom line price is about $2K more for the EB.

sounds like you might be getting a "package" that includes AWD in that extra $2k...

 

[Old Ranchero]

"A fraudulent advertising claim or sales offer for a product or service that is not available or not for sale at the stated price, made with the intention of luring customers who are then offered something else or forced to spend more money to get the same thing. "


Ford offered a certain vehicle for a certain price, and allowed more orders than they are capable of producing. They made the choice to continue hybrid orders beyond their estimated capacity.

Now for the same price, you order the inferior version that very well could make them more money.

Or Ford says "Sorry, we ran out for this year - order again next year for a higher price"

I'd say that satisfies much of the definition of a Bait and Switch.

you are claiming something as a fact that you have no proof or knowledge of, then continue further astray from what you are trying to prove using pure speculation. Ford, like ALL manufacturers is dependent on timely delivery of parts, assemblies, systems, sub-systems, etc. making up each unit of finished product (vehicle). Planners schedule to best- and worst-case scenarios over multiple timelines trying to account for all contingencies along the way and hope for the best. They constantly update scenarios as production moves along to match reality against their planning.

1 example of early forecast not meeting goals is the hybrid eCVT built in house. They had delays and fell behind predictions of the numbers they could build. That snowballs into backlog of delivered product critical to completing hybrids for sale. NOT done deliberately or as any kind of scheme to trick people into thinking they could buy a hybrid while KNOWING that wasn't true and trying to substitute other higher priced alternatives as a standard business practice. And that example is for an assembly they build and tightly control in their own factory. It's much worse trying to ride herd on hundreds or thousands of outside suppliers to make good on contracts with specific quantities and delivery deadlines that many times are critical to getting your end product built- or not.

You also are not accounting for the fact that with any product such as a vehicle, some % of finished orders will be rejected by buyers for 1 reason or another, so it is actually prudent to account for this "excess" supply entering the planning scenarios. You also fail to consider the flip side of producing a new product for sale: what if the product flops and becomes a financial disaster to the manufacturer? I guess that's all good for you because then it's just another big evil corporation taking the hit instead of consumers.

There's no obvious/provable intent to defraud involved here, so no bait and switch.

 

[reciprocating_ravioli]

you are claiming something as a fact that you have no proof or knowledge of, then continue further astray from what you are trying to prove using pure speculation. Ford, like ALL manufacturers is dependent on timely delivery of parts, assemblies, systems, sub-systems, etc. making up each unit of finished product (vehicle). Planners schedule to best- and worst-case scenarios over multiple timelines trying to account for all contingencies along the way and hope for the best. They constantly update scenarios as production moves along to match reality against their planning.

1 example of early forecast not meeting goals is the hybrid eCVT built in house. They had delays and fell behind predictions of the numbers they could build. That snowballs into backlog of delivered product critical to completing hybrids for sale. NOT done deliberately or as any kind of scheme to trick people into thinking they could buy a hybrid while KNOWING that wasn't true and trying to substitute other higher priced alternatives as a standard business practice. And that example is for an assembly they build and tightly control in their own factory. It's much worse trying to ride herd on hundreds or thousands of outside suppliers to make good on contracts with specific quantities and delivery deadlines that many times are critical to getting your end product built- or not.

You also are not accounting for the fact that with any product such as a vehicle, some % of finished orders will be rejected by buyers for 1 reason or another, so it is actually prudent to account for this "excess" supply entering the planning scenarios. You also fail to consider the flip side of producing a new product for sale: what if the product flops and becomes a financial disaster to the manufacturer? I guess that's all good for you because then it's just another big evil corporation taking the hit instead of consumers.

There's no obvious/provable intent to defraud involved here, so no bait and switch.

By Ford's own posted numbers they have around 35% capacity for hybrid builds.

Ford was both aware of their production limitations and allowed far more hybrid orders than they knew they could produce.

But by all means, keep boot licking Ford, maybe the boss will invite you for a pony ride.

 

[Old Ranchero]

By Ford's own posted numbers they have around 35% capacity for hybrid builds.

Ford was both aware of their production limitations and allowed far more hybrid orders than they knew they could produce.

But by all means, keep boot licking Ford, maybe the boss will invite you for a pony ride.

That's a forecast at time of publication only. They probably used worst case scenario too. Things are fluid and change over time. Sorry if the facts confused you so. Maybe your negative attitude regarding all things Ford will too?

 

[Redneck Garage]

By Ford's own posted numbers they have around 35% capacity for hybrid builds.

Ford was both aware of their production limitations and allowed far more hybrid orders than they knew they could produce.

But by all means, keep boot licking Ford, maybe the boss will invite you for a pony ride.

pony ride - hahahahahahahahahahahaha Without a doubt they took - AND didnt cancel way more orders for hybrids than they could produce. Those 65% of folks with an order for a hybrid are going to be disappointed. I hear the argument - well Ford could make more than they originally thought ..... well ok - they should cancel all the pending orders they feel like they wont fill in 2023 then if by some magic they are able to build more trucks - they could then take more orders. Making people wait a year to find out they aren't going to get built knowing it aint gonna happen is pitiful on Fords part AND they are saying no rollover to 2024 .... awesome.

 

[reciprocating_ravioli]

That's a forecast at time of publication only. They probably used worst case scenario too. Things are fluid and change over time. Maybe your negative attitude regarding all things Ford will too?

You say negative attitude, I say realistic.

They have absolutely screwed up every new roll-out. That is a fact. As I said in another post - I don't really believe they intentialy mislead customers. I think they are just wildly incompetent.

I ordered a Hybrid knowing there was probably a 50/50 shot (likely worse). I'm already looking at other brands if the Mav doesn't get scheduled in the next few months. Would be great to get the cheap hybrid - but if not, oh well.

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