Auto Stop/Start may be going away (per EPA)

[TheSEARCH]

Auto start/stop has never been about fuel savings at an individual car level. It's about reducing vehicle emissions.

1 mpg savings x 14.5M vehicles sold in America per year x 13,500 miles per year is ~217 Million of gallons of gas not being burned.

There's zero statistical evidence that auto start/stop is killing your motor. The ECM is programmed to only enable start/stop when the engine is warm and the battery has enough charge to start the motor. Starters are build much beefier to handle the AS/S system, and the ECM stops the engine at TDC to reduce the number of cranks to start the engine. Ford's implementation is one of the best I've seen, taking into account things such as AC usage, ambient temperature and even drive mode.

If having to replace my starter ten years from now and paying a couple bucks more for a battery means my child and grandchildren can breathe air and not smog, I'm fine with doing my part.

Sorry starter motors are NOT built tougher . Take it from somebody that actually changes many. and used to rebuild them when I worked at Chevy dealer. My buddy has a 2016 F-150 which doesn't have the start stop In 2017 it did. Guess what? the starter motor was unchanged in same engine from year to year one with start stop other not. . Same part number . I have seen this fallacy before that car makers made the starter stronger. No they did NOT. 12 volt batteries as we see failing in the hybrid maverick still the same. Sure AGM are better but how much.

So with the start stop feature you will have to replace both sooner. Its one thing to be fine with that added cost BUT in the end does it lesson CO2 output. It takes co2 output to make those replacement parts. Not to mention disposable of batteries,.

Do I know for sure over all it doesn't lessons total co2 output with start stop. NO. But it sure doesn't seem like it would to me. Plus the added risk of being stranded it it doesn't start when on the road. Yes Computer monitors battery BUT has no idea if solenoid in starter is about to fail. Typical the solenoid fails by the way when they do go bad.

Replaced starter on my mothers Honda Accord at 6 years old Same for MANY other cars,. . So no they don't last 10 years. For extra money I still work on cars at home .. Starters don't typically last that long . Even less with start stop. .

Side note,, none of this applies to hybrid Mav.

Sponsored

 

[The Real Maverick]

They have to keep doing stop-gap incremental advancements because too many people are unwilling to go whole hog and go EV.

EV's only are suitable for 90% of the population. But 60% of people "think" they are in the 10%.

Yes there will need to be massive recycling efforts. Guess what? 99% of lead batteries are recycled today.

"Nearly 99% of lead-acid batteries are recycled in the United States. This makes them the most recycled consumer product in the country. The Battery Council International estimates that 160 million lead batteries are recycled each year."

 

[Snox801]

They have to keep doing stop-gap incremental advancements because too many people are unwilling to go whole hog and go EV.

EV's only are suitable for 90% of the population. But 60% of people "think" they are in the 10%.

Yes there will need to be massive recycling efforts. Guess what? 99% of lead batteries are recycled today.

"Nearly 99% of lead-acid batteries are recycled in the United States. This makes them the most recycled consumer product in the country. The Battery Council International estimates that 160 million lead batteries are recycled each year."

Ok but you are missing the part about f the pollution that is created by mining lithium. Which once recycled is still taking more resources to recycle. Also tire pollution from tire dust significantly outpaced that of gas.
You can keep telling yourself your saving whatever you want but in reality it’s not.
Think of all the resources needed just to upgrade the power grid to accommodate 90 percent of everyone moving to ev. That’s a lot of trees cut down to accept larger transmission line, all that fuel used in the trucks and equipment to make it happen. Then you still need to create that power using what? Oh that’s right more than likely fossil fuels.

 

[TheSEARCH]

They have to keep doing stop-gap incremental advancements because too many people are unwilling to go whole hog and go EV.

EV's only are suitable for 90% of the population. But 60% of people "think" they are in the 10%.

Yes there will need to be massive recycling efforts. Guess what? 99% of lead batteries are recycled today.

"Nearly 99% of lead-acid batteries are recycled in the United States. This makes them the most recycled consumer product in the country. The Battery Council International estimates that 160 million lead batteries are recycled each year."

I doubt the 90 percent its suitable for EV. 17 percent of population live in aparments. No home charging for most. . Driving up the cost to gas prices or higher at fast chargers. Then the rural area are just not suitable. Then Old people. No way my mom could take one of those heavy cables and plug it into car. Not happening and I bet millions of older people too. . I would lower that 90 percent way down.

I myself have driven many places as a camper with no way to charge at these locations. Could I do it, yes but NOT easily making many trips to a camp area two days rather than a day drive. Lucky for me gas cars will be around as long as i am alive.

Then how much does EV cars really lower Co2, I have seen many say when car reaches 60 to 70 K miles it breaks even. Are we going away from gas? Sure BUT a LONG time from now. No way CA meets their goal. Law will change.

 

[LSchicago]

This thread will be banned.
It is political.
Place your bets ladies and gents.

Auto start stop has nothing to do with politics.
But PolitiTARDS can make anything political. Power windows, coffee, dogs, pick a topic and the TARDS come out.

 

[The Real Maverick]

I doubt the 90 percent its suitable for EV. 17 percent of population live in aparments. No home charging for most. . Driving up the cost to gas prices or higher at fast chargers. Then the rural area are just not suitable. Then Old people. No way my mom could take one of those heavy cables and plug it into car. Not happening and I bet millions of older people too. . I would lower that 90 percent way down.

I myself have driven many places as a camper with no way to charge at these locations. Could I do it, yes but NOT easily making many trips to a camp area two days rather than a day drive. Lucky for me gas cars will be around as long as i am alive.

Then how much does EV cars really lower Co2, I have seen many say when car reaches 60 to 70 K miles it breaks even. Are we going away from gas? Sure BUT a LONG time from now. No way CA meets their goal. Law will change.

If you can plug in a lamp you can plug in a car at home. Plus "old" people you are so worried about probably are not driving 250+ miles per day.

Small light cord & slow charging will be just fine for most.

And the grid is fine now. For most areas.
Power used per capita has gone down thanks to LED lights and LED TV's and more power efficient and auto-shutoff everything. There is excess power in most of the country. CA has 80+ gigawatts of generating capacity today with peak load of 45 gigawatts.

You are going to say something about it's hard to ramp that up and down and you'd be correct. Power companies would like to see more people charge on a more regular basis. All at 5pm may be tough for them. But there's no reason everyone should or even would need to do this. They can and will incentivize off peak charging.

Most people have a hard-wired paradigm that is hard to change.

Most people WILL NOT need to go out and charge in public places. Vast majority will charge at home. And a little here and a little there.

Unless you drain your big battery daily (which is akin to draining your fuel tank daily) there is absolutely no reason to pull 350 kW from the grid. 3 kw is plenty.

Cross country / overnight trips are the case for a need for fast chargers. They are not the business case for daily commuters.

 

[HenryFord]

Having owned hybrids before I really didn't ever give it much thought that the engine turning off would bother people. I actually like the quiet when sitting at the traffic lights. Just give people options to turn it on if they like it or off and remember the setting so you don't have to keep changing stuff before you leave. Like the drive mode selector!

 

[HenryFord]

If you can plug in a lamp you can plug in a car at home. Plus "old" people you are so worried about probably are not driving 250+ miles per day.

Small light cord & slow charging will be just fine for most.

And the grid is fine now. For most areas.
Power used per capita has gone down thanks to LED lights and LED TV's and more power efficient and auto-shutoff everything. There is excess power in most of the country. CA has 80+ gigawatts of generating capacity today with peak load of 45 gigawatts.

You are going to say something about it's hard to ramp that up and down and you'd be correct. Power companies would like to see more people charge on a more regular basis. All at 5pm may be tough for them. But there's no reason everyone should or even would need to do this. They can and will incentivize off peak charging.

Most people have a hard-wired paradigm that is hard to change.

Most people WILL NOT need to go out and charge in public places. Vast majority will charge at home. And a little here and a little there.

Unless you drain your big battery daily (which is akin to draining your fuel tank daily) there is absolutely no reason to pull 350 kW from the grid. 3 kw is plenty.

Cross country / overnight trips are the case for a need for fast chargers. They are not the business case for daily commuters.

Charging at home is a no brainer and easy enough that anyone can do that. But it is a valid point that lots of people don't have that access today. Some might be able to be addressed if there were street side charging or employers putting in places to charge. It will probably take incentives and regulation to make that happen. So we still have some time before it will be accessible for the majority. The infrastructure build needs to get done. Things are happening, but mostly in the DCFC arena at the moment from what I can see. For those that have that option charging at home is the one thing I miss most. Always leave with a charge, and charging at home is cheap compared to the public charging options. It is very nice and it spoils you!

 

[The Real Maverick]

Free public parking is a "perk" some people seek out. For others free "wifi" is a perk they seek. Free coffee/tea/ice water is another.

Free charging is a perk in many areas. More than most Muggles realize. And the EV community is only too happy to keep their free charging ability a secret.

Raise your hand if you even sometimes get free gasoline.



People in apartments not only can charge. In many areas they can charge for free. (And I know many who do.)

 

[HenryFord]

Free public parking is a "perk" some people seek out. For others free "wifi" is a perk they seek. Free coffee/tea/ice water is another.

Free charging is a perk in many areas. More than most Muggles realize. And the EV community is only too happy to keep their free charging ability a secret.

Raise your hand if you even sometimes get free gasoline.



People in apartments not only can charge. In many areas they can charge for free. (And I know many who do.)

I get free gas every time I hit Taco Bell... LOL The charging options really are location specific. There really does need to be a focus on getting charging everywhere. For a lot of people even a 120v outlet will get them enough miles daily. We aren't talking about the need for L2 even. I drove for several years just using my 120v EVSE and it worked out OK. It isn't fast, but works for a lot of what I was doing commuting across the city. My employer ended up adding some Chargepoint L2 chargers, but they didn't give us a price break on the cost so it was always cheaper to charge at home. But for some people those L2 chargers at work were a life saver. There weren't enough of them though so they had to limit the amount of time you were allowed to charge. Growing pains!

 

[HeyBales]

I sill say the start stop while it does reduce gas use hence less co2. BUT in the long run with more battery replacement and starter replacement and the co2 to make those things over all it increases the co2 output.

PLUS the added cost and inconvenience of having a bad starter or battery. SOONER than without the start/stop .

The goal is to use less oil for vehicles. To me it increases it.

Starter is not a standard in all makes, perhaps some - it's heavy duty and more expensive, and on some makes a different start method too. That really shouldn't be a concern unless it's like the 1st version ever made by the supplier. It'll probably last longer than a standard considering the times the AS/S isn't allowed to work.
Except Chevy perhaps...

Battery - eh, it's bigger.
More to the matter on the battery is the alternator charging strategy to compensate enough for more usage. It is really getting recharged enough?
Ford may or may not be using a strategy that seems to work well for other makes.

 

[FordDiehard]

I turn it off every time I get in my truck. Seems it could result in a premature starter replacement.

 

[LSchicago]

No way. I will loose some towing capacity and giddyup.

HYBRID is quicker in the 1/8 mile. If the 2.0T was hybrid like the Nautilus, you'd have much more "giddyup"

 

[shadow76]

I'll be some of you here have taught school and had bus duty at a school where most of the kids get picked up after school by a parent. That pickup scene after school is a s-show. I worked in TX where there are lots of large, stinky vehicles (some of which I've owned), but when a hundred of them are lined up after school to pick up their kids and they don't shut the engines because it's 105 degrees outside, the smell just knocks you out and the added heat of 100 big engines idling makes your sweat roll. Auto shut off on my maverick felt strange for the first 20 times and now it doesn't get my attention. I'm okay with that feature, myself. And I'm happy to never have bus duty again!

Did my student teacher stint at McCallum HS. You’re spot on about dozens of moms idling the engine for the AC.

 

[Bigcanoe]

Can they reprogram it to be off by default!

Sponsored