(Article) The Feds Plan To Start Diluting Gasoline (E15)This May

[kevinmccune]

The 70's the automakers had more than enough going on. With the new emissions regulations, engine performance (power, economy, and drivability) all took a hit at the big three. They were also dealing with the pressure from loss of market share to Japanese manufacturers. They did not need another thing on their plate.

The US did not have much ethanol production capacity in the 70's. It takes a couple years to build an ethanol facility. Corn is the best commonly grown commodity for ethanol production in the US and we've never had a shortage of it. Brazil has the advantage of using sugar cane for their domestic alcohol production.

yes also in the 70s they had to start rating gross HP( everything on the engine) the engines were still "torquey" but the lower compression and EGR took a hit on the HP numbers( they were so worried about nox( the former bugaboo on modern diesels,high combustion temps equal more efficiency,alas more nox as well.( the old diesel makers used to brag about"burning air" in the high combustion temp diesel engine,the manus seen a way to lower nox emissions without unduly crippling engine output( I give you "urea" injection in an exhaust reactor,much the same principle as the much maligned catalytic converter which arguably was a very good solution to gasoline emissions,make no mistake the demise of "tetra"lead had many benefits for engine and exhaust system longevity,so its not all bad,we have known how to make ethanol from corn a long time(moonshine) just scaling up was the issue.

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[dochawk]

I have a Craftsman V20 weed whacker and debris blower.

oh, believe me, going to 80 volts on both of those is amazing. I replaced perfectly good 18v with 80v on both, giving the old ones away, , and just plain "wow".

this morning, I finished converting the battery compartment in my kobalt 80v blower to accept a greenworks battery (just cut off the lowest ridge in the tool. it's only purpose is to prevent you from using a non-cobalt battery).

yes also in the 70s they had to start rating gross HP( everything on the engine) the engines were still "torquey" but the lower compression and EGR took a hit on the HP numbers

I'd long believed that there was a massive power drop in 1972, as the engines were emasculated.

Nope.

GM switched from reporting gross to net in 1972 (I believe ford and Chrysler were a year later), resulting in significantly lower reported power--but there were (almost) no changes to engines in 1972 (Cadillac switched from the higher compression 1970 cam that was, for no comprehensible reason, used in the 1971s).

When you hunt down sources that report both gross and net for the various years, there's no difference for 1971-1973 gm. (1971 lost about 10% as compression was dropped to allow use of the upcoming unleaded, then 1974, and OMG for 1975 [cadillac had to put the Eldorado 500 in everything as the 472 it was derived from couldn't move the bigger models!, and it went down from there]

 

[kevinmccune]

oh, believe me, going to 80 volts on both of those is amazing. I replaced perfectly good 18v with 80v on both, giving the old ones away, , and just plain "wow".

this morning, I finished converting the battery compartment in my kobalt 80v blower to accept a greenworks battery (just cut off the lowest ridge in the tool. it's only purpose is to prevent you from using a non-cobalt battery).



I'd long believed that there was a massive power drop in 1972, as the engines were emasculated.

Nope.

GM switched from reporting gross to net in 1972 (I believe ford and Chrysler were a year later), resulting in significantly lower reported power--but there were (almost) no changes to engines in 1972 (Cadillac switched from the higher compression 1970 cam that was, for no comprehensible reason, used in the 1971s).

When you hunt down sources that report both gross and net for the various years, there's no difference for 1971-1973 gm. (1971 lost about 10% as compression was dropped to allow use of the upcoming unleaded, then 1974, and OMG for 1975 [cadillac had to put the Eldorado 500 in everything as the 472 it was derived from couldn't move the bigger models!, and it went down from there]

Gross Man!(I meant net) in trucker parlance gross is total weight,"net" pays the bills,sorry I got mixed up,some models were "derated for insurance purposes,I am sure the 500 was created more for prestige then a bit more torque( the 472 had plenty,Lincoln was purportedly working on a 501 cubic inch monster for whatever reason didn't go through with it.( cooler heads prevailed or maybe the bean counters.) both caddy engines are sought after for "pulling trucks" and either the ford or gm respond well to mild hot rodding( no replacement for displacement!)

 

[Mavster Mechanic]

FYI

OSHA days under 50 volts is generally regarded as safe and people don't need special safety training. Over 50 volts is to be considered hazardous and special training is required (in the workplace) to handle above 50 volts.

In some trade unions anyone can work on say, 12v to 48v systems. Over 50 volts, better call an electrician.

The 80v lawn equipment is crossing a traditional, imaginary line in the sand. But not any more dangerous than 120 VAC I would say. But may be iffy in wet conditions.

 

[dochawk]

I am sure the 500 was created more for prestige then a bit more torque( the 472 had plenty,Lincoln was purportedly working on a 501 cubic inch monster for whatever reason didn't go through with it

the 500 was a stroked 472, producing 400hp/550-ft-lbs instead of 375/525. It was Eldorado only (and the Eldo was the smallest cadillac, the "personal luxury" entry).

That hp was one year only, as GM reduced compression in 1971--not directly for emissions, but to be able to use the upcoming unleaded gas.

The lower compression meant that the 71-73 models had 10% less. Then came 74 and after, which so strangled engines that they had to use the 500 for the entire line, as the 472 was no longer powerful enough!

And then everything but the Eldorado got downsized in '77 (it waited for '79) with smaller engines.

 

[zorki1c]

When I mow weekly, the battery can last the whole yard. If thick then I have to take a short break. Which is often a good idea to give me a chance to cool off and get some water.

We have a pretty small yard now. Takes a little over half hour to mow can mow it twice without recharging our Ego 21 inch self propelled. Much quieter and can fold up and stand on end when not using. No winterization needed

 

[kevinmccune]

the 500 was a stroked 472, producing 400hp/550-ft-lbs instead of 375/525. It was Eldorado only (and the Eldo was the smallest cadillac, the "personal luxury" entry).

That hp was one year only, as GM reduced compression in 1971--not directly for emissions, but to be able to use the upcoming unleaded gas.

The lower compression meant that the 71-73 models had 10% less. Then came 74 and after, which so strangled engines that they had to use the 500 for the entire line, as the 472 was no longer powerful enough!

And then everything but the Eldorado got downsized in '77 (it waited for '79) with smaller engines.

ot rodder could have tuned a 472
considering what came after it doesn't seem 25 IBS feet would have made that much difference a coup;e hundred lbs off the curb weight a bit different in the axle ratio bet you would have been hard pressed to tell the difference,I suspect they only wanted one engine to mess with,the ford 460 interceptor was probably chomping at their heels( the 460 was detuned for the trucks to protect the drivelines any hotrodder could have made the 472 the equal or surpassing the stock 500,had to be more then just 28 cid a dynotune would have made a lot of difference,used to fellow the guys at motor trend their dynotunes really woke a lot of stock engines,this probably why Lincoln didn't follow through with the 501.

 

[kevinmccune]

We have a pretty small yard now. Takes a little over half hour to mow can mow it twice without recharging our Ego 21 inch self propelled. Much quieter and can fold up and stand on end when not using. No winterization needed

I have finally ended up with 3 acres too many to keep mowed as an old farmer said[if it takes more than 15 minutes to push mow,the yard is too big]

 

[dochawk]

any hotrodder could have made the 472 the equal or surpassing the stock 500,

sure--but could have done the same thing on the 500!

I've been told on fora that you could get a mpg increase by putting the 472 heads on the 500--but I also think from other references that they were the same, so . . .

this probably why Lincoln didn't follow through with the 501.

That final caddie big block was supposedly charted for getting to 600cid--but then the oil embargo, so it didn''t happen.

I believe that aftermarket has gone even beyond that (700?)

 

[kevinmccune]

sure--but could have done the same thing on the 500!

I've been told on fora that you could get a mpg increase by putting the 472 heads on the 500--but I also think from other references that they were the same, so . . .




That final caddie big block was supposedly charted for getting to 600cid--but then the oil embargo, so it didn''t happen.

I believe that aftermarket has gone even beyond that (700?)

here there,they be monsters,some are quite ridiculous!

 

[kevink]

We have a pretty small yard now. Takes a little over half hour to mow can mow it twice without recharging our Ego 21 inch self propelled. Much quieter and can fold up and stand on end when not using. No winterization needed

That may be very similar to mine. I think a year after I bought it they upgraded it to spin the blade faster or something. But I'm not going to replace my mower every year. I only replace my old Craftsman mower after about 15 years because I was having issues with it after many reliable years.

I won't go back to a gas self propelled mower.

And when I stored it in the garage, I stood it on end. Now in the shed I store on end over the winter. Useful.

 

[MavStangVa]

That may be very similar to mine. I think a year after I bought it they upgraded it to spin the blade faster or something. But I'm not going to replace my mower every year. I only replace my old Craftsman mower after about 15 years because I was having issues with it after many reliable years.

I won't go back to a gas self propelled mower.

And when I stored it in the garage, I stood it on end. Now in the shed I store on end over the winter. Useful.

I was looking at the Ryobi mowers last week. All of my yard tools are ryobi 40v so the batteries would interchange. My John Deere push mower which is relegated to ditch mowing only at this house is 21 years old. 87 ethanol blend gas used since new. Replaced the plug twice, air filter once but clean it every year, blade twice due to hidden object taking a chunk out of them. What I noticed about the battery mower was how much lighter to push it is. My rider is a JD that is 17 years old so I hope it hangs in for the rest of my years.

 

[Cancunbadlands]

Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it naturally attracts and absorbs moisture from the air.
When water enters the fuel system, it doesn't just sit there; it mixes with the ethanol to create a corrosive solution.
This "acidic" cocktail attacks metal components like fuel tanks (especially older steel ones), fuel pumps, and fuel injectors. Over time, this leads to rust and pitting, which can clog the system with debris.

 

[bill dalton]

Ran across this news article, I definitely can't confirm it's accuracy/fact, etc. but it was an informative article after reading it all (to me).
Thought others might be interested in it

https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-feds-plan-to-start-diluting-gasoline-this-may-explained

interesting.

 

[kevinmccune]

Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it naturally attracts and absorbs moisture from the air.
When water enters the fuel system, it doesn't just sit there; it mixes with the ethanol to create a corrosive solution.
This "acidic" cocktail attacks metal components like fuel tanks (especially older steel ones), fuel pumps, and fuel injectors. Over time, this leads to rust and pitting, which can clog the system with debris.

don't store a gas powered tool over winter full of e10,I always run them dry then choke and spin to they stall,never had a problem for many years

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