Coolant Surfactant Additive - Useful in a Hybrid?

[Nesser]

This will be my first winter with my 2023 Hybrid Maverick.

After discovering the temperature requirements to get into hybrid full electric mode and possible exhaust gas heat exchanger issues I started to wonder how I could warm up my hybrid faster during the colder seasons. I'm not located in a deep freeze area but it does get cold here - hybrid systems seem to be more sensitive to cold which makes sense with my basic experience with batteries.

I've been taking some data points on the ICE coolant temperatures using an ODBII reader - not to the level of @MaveRichard and @GPSMan in the High Voltage Battery Heating - NOT Possible cause of 12v battery drain thread. I wish my scanner had the battery and coolant data but I haven't dug that far in. I can confirm an offset of ambient (46F) and coolant temperatures (52F) after sitting all night in my last test. My best guess was that the coolant wasn't loosing heat as quickly as the air.

I didn't have any concerns using the additive in the ICE pressurized loop - it's exactly what it's meant to be used for. I wasn't so sure about the "everything else" battery loop since one of the benefits is reducing operating temperatures of non-thermostat controlled cooling applications. Reached out the to manufacturer and they said it would work great in a hybrid battery application. I believe the increased warm up should overcome a minor reduction in operating temperature - which I expect is computer controlled instead of mechanically controlled with a thermostat - so I'm giving it a shot.

The coolant additive I'm using claims to:

• more efficent heat transfer, decreasing time to get to operating temperature - heat and electric hybrid available sooner - still need to measure and validate this
• reduce operating temperatures - the thermostat in the pressurized loop makes that difficult to validate - looks like a slight reduction in coolant vs straight water applications in manufacturer results
• additional corrosion protection beyond the coolant

My basic test is worst case - similar to a remote start for 10 minutes or getting stuck at the punishment light on my way to work and idling for most of the warm-up to operating temperatures:

1. Let the vehicle sit all night
2. Capture the ambient temperature - in theory the lower the better the additive should do. I'm still above freezing but that should change in November.
3. Key on, turn off HVAC if it was on, I don't bother with the radio
4. Press the gas pedal down to start the engine in park
5. Let the engine idle until it gets to operating temperature and the engine goes off
6. Record the duration of time

Any thoughts on using a surfactant additive in the coolant loops on the hybrid before I get some tests run with the additive installed?

Is it a waste of $20 or worth it? Gas is ~$1.50/L right now. That is ~13.3L of fuel to break even during the year or ~3.5 US gallons for me. Hard to quantify how much I'd pay for the possibility to get full heat in half the time after a cold start which is the suggested best case outcome. Everybody will be different there. I'd certainly assign more value to faster heat during a -30C morning than 0C.

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[Silver23]

My guess is it will do nothing. I've used it in the past on overheating prone vehicles and it did nothing.

 

[GPSMan]

It's not going to do anything "in half the time".

If you want to hit that threshold temperature 4 seconds sooner, ya go for it.

#1 best thing you CAN do is buy a plug-in engine block heater. Put it on a timer. You only need about 4 hours before departure. No harm to the truck running it plugged in all night, but it wastes power over 4 hours. Usually.

 

[Ken L]

A 23 Maverick sold in the Canadian market does have the block heater installed as standard equipment. It took a bit for me to find the plug, just not where it expected it. It is attached to passenger side of the radiator, at the top (has a round protective cover). I plan on using mine regularly this winter. There are various timers, remote controlled ones etc, available.

Ken

 

[GPSMan]

The 2005-2007 hybrid escapes also had a battery heater for the NiMH battery pack. Always thought that was kind of neat.

Radiator water would be 100°F in the morning and HV battery would be 50-60°F.

I was in Minnesota at the time.
My Escape never knew it was winter.

Water heater (engine block heater) was 400 watts. Battery heater was an additional 75 watts.

 

[GPSMan]

I also had a snap on grille cover.
This was the age before shutters.
Did not need air to the radiator in winter. Allowed full EV in winter. Could open it half way for climbing mountain grades, or while towing, etc.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

It's not going to do anything "in half the time".

If you want to hit that threshold temperature 4 seconds sooner, ya go for it.

#1 best thing you CAN do is buy a plug-in engine block heater. Put it on a timer. You only need about 4 hours before departure. No harm to the truck running it plugged in all night, but it wastes power over 4 hours. Usually.

FYI I use these (search for "Thermo Cube" brand) old school type made in different on/off ranges to choose from. Can be plugged into GFCI plug or into extension cord plugged into standard or GFCI socket wherever you think is best. Verify amps of course.

 

[The Real Maverick]

FYI I use these (search for "Thermo Cube" brand) old school type made in different on/off ranges to choose from. Can be plugged into GFCI plug or into extension cord plugged into standard or GFCI socket wherever you think is best. Verify amps of course.

Neat idea. I had not seen those. Thanks.

 

[MakinDoForNow]

Neat idea. I had not seen those. Thanks.

They have been around for many years they are nice in that they have a narrow on/off window. I use the TC-3 model on at 35°F (and below) off at 45°F. Most are 38/55. Many are computer controlled also these are not. You can plug them into a timer if you wanted to, but why? WAIT= one might not want to run their block heater if it doesn't get as cold as wanted when time starts,. WAIT AGAIN = How about a manually wound coocoo clock placed where the door trips a relay when the bird chirps (save that electricity)?

 

[Nesser]

I did end up investing in some block heater equipment before this winter. Got a VoltSafe magentic cord - link is to princessAuto who has them on clearance as I write. This makes the vehicle connection easier - not sure on reliability yet but has done well so far. The easier to connect the more likely it will get used which for me is the long pole in the tent.

As for controlling it I use my existing home automation to control an outdoor rated Z-wave switch device.
Then it's up to me to decide how to schedule it or react to other sensors in my home automation. It can look at the outdoor temperature and decide to turn on the plug 3h before I normally leave for work or not. I also have limited the runtime of that device to be on for N hours continuously at a time - currently 3h is my max.

This is an interesting related recent thread about Hybrid Maverick cold starts as the artic air has set in on the West and now Southern Ontario. Seems to mostly be about dealing with battery issues during the deep cold which make sense to me even though these existed before the cold showed up.

Something I hadn't thought about is using the remote start feature - then not getting to the car in time to turn it on before it automatically turns off after 10min by default. I've extended mine to 15 minutes in the settings. It is really easy to do when you get distracted. From what I've read in the thread it seems like that short cycle can trigger the issue on the next start when it's really cold out.

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