Went looking for a Santa Cruz

[Steve Urquell]

Good thing you didn't buy a Hybrid or you would have had to park it outside to not burn down your house as well...and at one time you could worry about everytime you drove it the engine cutting off. Maybe even when you hit the brakes you were scared it wouldn't stop. There are a lot of horror stories to go around. Heck the Ecoboost engines have known problems over various models for the following:

• Coolant leaks
• Carbon buildup
• Cracked exhaust manifold
• Failed boost control solenoid
• Low-pressure fuel pump failure
• Timing chain problems
• Cam phasers
• Ignition system issues

If you need more info on the Ecoboost...check this:
Ford EcoBoost Problems: Are Ford EcoBoost Engines Reliable? - CoPilot (copilotsearch.com)

I wish you the best with your Hyundai but after dealing with my local dealer and knowing I have zero support from them as well as dealing with Hyundai corporation and watching how they only issued recalls well after millions of people had problems for over a decade I will not mess with them again.

You have to keep in mind I had Hyundais for 20 years. This isn't one tiny stub your toe incident but many over 20yrs. The 2004 Santa Fe I owned was a great vehicle. It was built great from the factory so I only had to deal with the dealer infrequently and the only reason I bought the Tuscon.

After having to deal with the dealer every time I turned around and then seeing how the corporation acted with the engine failures and lack of admission on their part until deaths and class action lawsuits occurred I had a good idea of their MO.

So for me zero dealer support and a corporation that denies problems until forced to deal with it by courts I bowed out.

I once again wish you the best with your Hyundai but I am speaking from 20yrs of experience in dealing with their corporation.

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[TheSEARCH]

I don't know where you shopped but if you really did a comparison for feature for feature you might find that your evaluation is incorrect. First as a fact my Santa Cruz SEL AWD was cheaper than a close match Maverick. To get close the XLT would need the 4k Tow package to tow and get the tranny cooler that is standard on the SC AWD, AWD, Ecoboost, heated seats, power driver seat, split rear seat, Co Pilot 360 and the enhanced 360, Lux Pkg, bedliner, solar glass, acoustic windshield, power tailgate with power lock, load levelling rear springs, better radio and speakers, nicer interior that doesn't scratch, bigger tires, improved ride and handling, better insulation for noise. With that said with the Ecoboost you would get more HP than in my SEL but still without the 4k tow package wouldn't be able to tow by a wide margin. When I added those items up I paid $30.5K for my SC while the Maverick came up to $31.5k...a fully priced Maverick Lariat 4WD optioned out can get over $40k and still not have the features on a fully loaded SC. If you go by EPA my combined is 23MPG (4.3gallons per 100 miles)and the Maverick 24MPG. (4.2 gallons per 100 miles)...I just don't see the huge difference you speak of. I can't speak to the EPA but in my area which is rural with some city driving I'm averaging over 28.6 MPG....and I'v read where Maverick do way better than the EPA rates them as well on this site.

As far as blown engines you had better start looking deeper at Ford...I've seen reports of blown engines, in fact we still don't know why Ford is dealing with potential fires on the Maverick when the engines stop working...and drilling more holes in the skid pan and removing grill flaps apparently didn't fix this problem from last year. If you want history and not speak specifically about the SC but rather at Ford I suspect you will find a huge history of engine issues ( I can speak to the fact since they dumped Cummin's their Diesel's have been shet for years)

As far as sales numbers a lot of that is due to folks that have fermented in their brains that Hyundai sucks ...just like many on this board don't want to recognize the issues that the Maverick has had with quality but the recalls and TSB's don't lie. I posted that comparison on the two vehicles yesterday.and between the two over their two model years the Maverick leads by a fairly far amount in both categorys.......and the fact Jim Farley admits that the Ford qulity is not good and will take years to correct should speak for itself. The fact that buyers avoid those details when they are overwhelming and sit in line for months to get one is kind of depressing...I waited over 19 months to get my Hybrid. The fact Santa Cruz owners avoid researching the DCT transmissions is almost as amazing. But than again Hyundai will cover those issues for 10 years and Ford is only good for 5 years...anyone who wants to be a long term owner should thnk about that when they read about issues with either brand. I've seen two SC's bought back from Hyundai for the DCT tranny on the Santa Cruz forum which was enough to convince me to stay away from it. I've seen so many issues with the Hybrid I sold mine. Good mileage or not just too many issues both small and large to convince me to keep it...and then of course we have "it doesn't look like a truck" crowd....

As I said you can highly disagree with my points which I stand by. But the sales number show reality. The SC is a low sales vehicle. A failure from hyundai point of view. Sales numbers are what count to a manufacturer. The Mav is much more sought after.

Overall satisfaction with a manufacturer I can see many mad at ford. But the vehicle itself is a winner. The SC is hardly a match MY OPINION not anyone else but mine. Its great your happy with your SC. if SC offered a hybrid at no EXTRA cost it would be better competition. If they do offer one I would bet money it would be extra by a few grand making the option worthless. Maybe we will see.

 

[Scott Asheville]

I don't think any of us know who is happier with their sales so far, because we're not Ford or Hyundai accountants. We don't know the margins for either vehicle. Chasing volume sales is not necessarily a recipe for making money. Porsche and Ferrari don't chase volume and are the highest margin OEMs on the planet. Go watch the Autoline videos - John did a video on that topic a few months back.

Selling more cars than somebody else is 100% meaningless. Making more money is what matters. OEMs have gone bankrupt chasing volume. The whole COVID max profits period tasted delicious to OEMS, and it was low volume production.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

As I said you can highly disagree with my points which I stand by. But the sales number show reality. The SC is a low sales vehicle. A failure from hyundai point of view. Sales numbers are what count to a manufacturer. The Mav is much more sought after.

Overall satisfaction with a manufacturer I can see many mad at ford. But the vehicle itself is a winner. The SC is hardly a match MY OPINION not anyone else but mine. Its great your happy with your SC. if SC offered a hybrid at no EXTRA cost it would be better competition. If they do offer one I would bet money it would be extra by a few grand making the option worthless. Maybe we will see.

My disagreement was with your statements that you posted as facts. I didn't argue about sales numbers. As far as the rest of your statements anyone with an open mind and actually did detailed homework might feel differently. Facts say different and if you had done your homework and done a complete stacking of features on the mid to lower level models on both the the Maverick and the Santa Cruz would find that the pricing on those came up with the SC being cheaper. On the top level models the SC is slightly higher but not by much equally equipped and the difference on that would be be options that the Maverick doesn't have. Your cost example was totally bogus i an apples to apples since..

I cannot argue with the sales numbers but no one can predict why someone would take a vehicle with quality problems like the Maverick over a vehicle with less issues like the SC other than possibly looks but certainly not features. The quality issues are a fact. Data doesn't lie regarding function or quality between the two. The Santa Cruz according to Carcomplaints.com has had 4 recalls and 39 TSB's for both model years combined. The Ford Maverick has had a total of 7 recalls and 88 TSB's. Perhaps some of their data is not up to date but those numbers are quite different. Lastly your statements regarding a Hyundai Hybrid are simply assumptions at this point but if one were to compare to same type vehicles by both manufacturers in a Hybrid configuration you might find this info (Since the release of this article Ford has released the MPG for the Hybrid which was 39 MPG combined):
Compare Ford Escape Hybrid vs 2023 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid | CarBuzz

 

[TheSEARCH]

My disagreement was with your statements that you posted as facts. I didn't argue about sales numbers. As far as the rest of your statements anyone with an open mind and actually did detailed homework might feel differently. Facts say different and if you had done your homework and done a complete stacking of features on the mid to lower level models on both the the Maverick and the Santa Cruz would find that the pricing on those came up with the SC being cheaper. On the top level models the SC is slightly higher but not by much equally equipped and the difference on that would be be options that the Maverick doesn't have. Your cost example was totally bogus i an apples to apples since..

I cannot argue with the sales numbers but no one can predict why someone would take a vehicle with quality problems like the Maverick over a vehicle with less issues like the SC other than possibly looks but certainly not features. The quality issues are a fact. Data doesn't lie regarding function or quality between the two. The Santa Cruz according to Carcomplaints.com has had 4 recalls and 39 TSB's for both model years combined. The Ford Maverick has had a total of 7 recalls and 88 TSB's. Perhaps some of their data is not up to date but those numbers are quite different. Lastly your statements regarding a Hyundai Hybrid are simply assumptions at this point but if one were to compare to same type vehicles by both manufacturers in a Hybrid configuration you might find this info (Since the release of this article Ford has released the MPG for the Hybrid which was 39 MPG combined):
Compare Ford Escape Hybrid vs 2023 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid | CarBuzz

I get it You need to justify your purchase. . I totally disagree with what you call facts. Hyundai's reputation is low. Engine failure galore and hyundai refusal to fix oil burners is well known. No point talking further we disagree very much. If i had a SC I would be on the SC forum. But hey its a free country. Post where you think is best.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

I get it You need to justify your purchase. . I totally disagree with what you call facts. Hyundai's reputation is low. Engine failure galore and hyundai refusal to fix oil burners is well known. No point talking further we disagree very much. If i had a SC I would be on the SC forum. But hey its a free country. Post where you think is best.

If I needed to justify my purchase I wouldn't have just sold my 2023 Ford Maverick Hybrid. Ford has a reputation for not fixing known engine problems so be careful at what you point at...Ford historically has avoided major issues from the day of the Pinto to their Diesel engines to the red neck fixes they have done on the Maverick without fixing the real undermining issue for the engine breakdowns that cause the potential fires. Read about the problems with the Ecoboost which Ford has had major issues with. By the way the section I am posting in is under Maverick and the Competition so Iwill post my information regarding both vehicle on both forums.
I am on both since I've owned both a Maverick Hybrid and a Hyundai Santa Cruz and since this section is about the Competition seems like I should post here. Also since the title of this thread was about the Santa Cruz is even more of a reason to post here. Amazing how many folks get their shorts in a wad because someone actually posts in a post and section that is specifically for commenting on the competition..

 

[Farmer_John]

I think the word “Trojan” in your screen name is a story teller: ie “Trojan horse”. Which was used to infiltrate and attack. Sounds much like a nice way to refer to yourself as a troll.

that being said like what you like, but nothing built by human hands will ever be perfect. It’s impossible. At least with Ford you hear about issues and recalls.

 

[TheSEARCH]

If I needed to justify my purchase I wouldn't have just sold my 2023 Ford Maverick Hybrid. Ford has a reputation for not fixing known engine problems so be careful at what you point at...Ford historically has avoided major issues from the day of the Pinto to their Diesel engines to the red neck fixes they have done on the Maverick without fixing the real undermining issue for the engine breakdowns that cause the potential fires. Read about the problems with the Ecoboost which Ford has had major issues with. By the way the section I am posting in is under Maverick and the Competition so Iwill post my information regarding both vehicle on both forums.

So you don't own a Mav anymore but now own a SC if I understand you correctly. Hey if you want to post here go for it. If you think you will convince anyone think again. On avagera I can get a mav in the 29K range SC about 36 K. So yes it cost MORE but you get more fancy stuff. Compared against the hybrid its a pure gas pig. My prices come from Cars dot com. Did a search for highest pruice MNav then SC

We could argue till the cows come home about Ford and hyundai but whats the point. You believe hyundai has reliable well built vehicle,. I HIGHLY disagree from just the people i know with blown engines or oil burners. Not that many people yet I have seen this to me is insane .

If I needed to justify my purchase I wouldn't have just sold my 2023 Ford Maverick Hybrid. Ford has a reputation for not fixing known engine problems so be careful at what you point at...Ford historically has avoided major issues from the day of the Pinto to their Diesel engines to the red neck fixes they have done on the Maverick without fixing the real undermining issue for the engine breakdowns that cause the potential fires. Read about the problems with the Ecoboost which Ford has had major issues with. By the way the section I am posting in is under Maverick and the Competition so Iwill post my information regarding both vehicle on both forums.

I am on both since I've owned both a Maverick Hybrid and a Hyundai Santa Cruz and since this section is about the Competition seems like I should post here. Also since the title of this thread was about the Santa Cruz is even more of a reason to post here. Amazing how many folks get their shorts in a wad because someone actually posts in a post and section that is specifically for commenting on the competition..

You could go on and on how this ford did that or this. The Hyundai a relatively new manufacturer has a bad reputation whether you want to believe that or not.

But to me the biggest thing beside the god awful mpg. its just ugly.

 

[LSchicago]

I'm currently touring around my dad's place in McAllen TX today I saw 3 Mavericks but easily 9 or 10 Santa Cruzs. Yet Ford has built 3 times as many. Crazy stuff.

Rarely ever see a Santa Cruz around Chicago. See Mavericks every day or two.

 

[NJBob]

I don't know if I drive like an old fart or not but I'm averaging 28.65 MPG in my SEL AWD. That includes rural driving and city driving and if you've ever been to Tennessee you would know thats not flatland..

That's what I get on my awd Ecoboost 4k towing.

 

[Steve Urquell]

At least with Ford you hear about issues and recalls.

This one-thousanty.

Hyundai did not issue recalls on my vehicles until it ended up in court and they were forced by law to fix them.

All new production vehicles will have problems that need to be ironed out. It's how the corporation deals with these problems that defines the quality of that vehicle and the corporation.

Even after class action lawsuits, engines replaced left and right under warranty and deaths caused by engines locking up in traffic which caused wrecks Hyundai still tried to get out of replacing my engine due to lack of maintenance.

I had stopped letting the dealer service it and did it myself after I found out the dealer was charging my wife $200 for an oil change.

Thank God I kept impeccable records and reciepts in the maintenance log to prove I had serviced it.

I admit though, I was so frustrated by the piece of junk needing a qt of oil every 1000miles that I may have omitted entering the last couple of oil changes I had done. Just so done with it I no longer cared and just wanted rid of it.

I think my oil change schedule was less than what they required so even omitting them I still had shown it was well maintained.

Until I started changing my own oil I didn't know it was burning oil like crazy. Dealer never said anything and it was a miracle it didn't lock up with my wife driving it.

So Ford issuing recalls on the Mav is a good thing. Hyundai NOT issuing recalls is just them following what I already know about them. The problems are there just a weasel corporation denying a problem until a court orders them to fix it.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

You could go on and on how this ford did that or this. The Hyundai a relatively new manufacturer has a bad reputation whether you want to believe that or not.

But to me the biggest thing beside the god awful mpg. its just ugly.

Finally we got to the crux of your issues with the Santa Cruz... believe I pointed out a few times that it sometimes comes down to the eye of the beholder. Again unless you are speaking to the hybrid the MPG between the NA engine in the SC and the Ecoboost in the Maverick are really not enough difference to say "god awful" IMHO. Maverick according to the EPA 4.2 gallons per 100 miles and Santa Cruz 4.3 gallons per 100 miles. Pretty insignifican .IMHO........lastly Ford has had most recently one of the worst reputations for quality amongst vehicle manufacturers. Ford reserves more monies for repairs of their vehicles than anyone in the market currently including GM . Reliability for Hyundai and Kia were rated higher for the 2022 model year vehicles than Ford by JD Power. Edmunds ranks the Santa Cruz second best among small trucks to the Honda Ridgeline. The Maverick also finished behind the Santa Cruz in reliability based upon their criteria. Just some data to add to the discusson.

 

[Old Hickory Trojan]

This one-thousanty.

Hyundai did not issue recalls on my vehicles until it ended up in court and they were forced by law to fix them.

All new production vehicles will have problems that need to be ironed out. It's how the corporation deals with these problems that defines the quality of that vehicle and the corporation.

Even after class action lawsuits, engines replaced left and right under warranty and deaths caused by engines locking up in traffic which caused wrecks Hyundai still tried to get out of replacing my engine due to lack of maintenance.

I had stopped letting the dealer service it and did it myself after I found out the dealer was charging my wife $200 for an oil change.

Thank God I kept impeccable records and reciepts in the maintenance log to prove I had serviced it.

I admit though, I was so frustrated by the piece of junk needing a qt of oil every 1000miles that I may have omitted entering the last couple of oil changes I had done. Just so done with it I no longer cared and just wanted rid of it.

I think my oil change schedule was less than what they required so even omitting them I still had shown it was well maintained.

Until I started changing my own oil I didn't know it was burning oil like crazy. Dealer never said anything and it was a miracle it didn't lock up with my wife driving it.

So Ford issuing recalls on the Mav is a good thing. Hyundai NOT issuing recalls is just them following what I already know about them. The problems are there just a weasel corporation denying a problem until a court orders them to fix it.

Not had any issues on mine. Let me add after spending time on both the SC and Maverick forums I've read posts from Mavrick owners where Ford wouldn't cover bad applied and peeling paint, a badly mounted passenger seat, rattles in the windshields and cracked windshields , misaligned body panels, engines cutting out in traffic on both engines, engines destroying themselves, bad axles, seat wrinkles and stitches coming apart and owners that had taken vehicles in for service and getting misdiagnosed. Not saying Hyundai doesn't have similar instances but I've seen folks get their front grill replaced due to some peeling. I've seen folks get reimbursed completely with a buy back for their SC's for having a bad DCT tranny, I've seen whole door panels replaced because their interior driver door handle had bad adhesion on it's coating. Let me add, Ford has had recalls because the Nationa Safety Council told them to. How long did it take for Ford to address the brake issues on the Hybrid and has it been corrected completely. I will say however my Hybrid 's brakes worked fine. The fact that they have had more than one recall on the engine potential for fires after addressing it with a BS solution the first time. Hyundai has a recall on their 4 pin tow harness. It was immediate and they even have allowed for reimbursement for an non OEM harness and installation rather than waiting for the replacement by Hyundai to be installed. That scenario runs counter to what you posted IMHO. Bottom line you appear to overlook similar instances with Ford but not with Hyundai. Lastly I've seen many dealers try to rip off customers on service. I had a Toyota RAV4 that the dealership had it's own service requirements every time it was brought in that was nothing like what Toyota had for maintenance schedules. They were ripping their customers off.

 

[Steve Urquell]

Not had any issues on mine. Let me add after spending time on both the SC and Maverick forums I've read posts from Mavrick owners where Ford wouldn't cover bad applied and peeling paint, a badly mounted passenger seat, rattles in the windshields and cracked windshields , misaligned body panels, engines cutting out in traffic on both engines, engines destroying themselves, bad axles, seat wrinkles and stitches coming apart and owners that had taken vehicles in for service and getting misdiagnosed. Not saying Hyundai doesn't have similar instances but I've seen folks get their front grill replaced due to some peeling. I've seen folks get reimbursed completely with a buy back for their SC's for having a bad DCT tranny, I've seen whole door panels replaced because their interior driver door handle had bad adhesion on it's coating. Let me add, Ford has had recalls because the Nationa Safety Council told them to. How long did it take for Ford to address the brake issues on the Hybrid and has it been corrected completely. I will say however my Hybrid 's brakes worked fine. The fact that they have had more than one recall on the engine potential for fires after addressing it with a BS solution the first time. Hyundai has a recall on their 4 pin tow harness. It was immediate and they even have allowed for reimbursement for an non OEM harness and installation rather than waiting for the replacement by Hyundai to be installed. That scenario runs counter to what you posted IMHO. Bottom line you appear to overlook similar instances with Ford but not with Hyundai. Lastly I've seen many dealers try to rip off customers on service. I had a Toyota RAV4 that the dealership had it's own service requirements every time it was brought in that was nothing like what Toyota had for maintenance schedules. They were ripping their customers off.

I'm posting about what I have experienced firsthand and you are posting about what you read online. I haven't had problems with my Mav yet. I will post about them when I do. How many problems did you have with your Mav that you feel the need to hang around on a forum related to a vehicle you don't own and point out all the flaws in that that you never experienced?

Everything I posted about I experienced directly.

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