Y'all are wrong about ethanol (with photos)

[GPSMan]

Have we ever gone to war over corn?

Good point.
No.

And it's too difficult to outsource it to India to refine it. So the corn (and the jobs) stay in the USA.

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[GPSMan]

Cornel University Study. Seems to me as I recall The United States was a surplus oil producer up until fairly recently.

• Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTU. "Put another way," Pimentel says, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU."
• Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel says. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it, either, if it weren't for government subsidies to artificially lower the price."
• 
  
  

Pimentel is like Sasquatch.
Not many believe in him.
Been debunked as garbage many times over. The data came from a backyard still in 1980. Or was it 1981. I forget. Feel free to use that delete button.

 

[SLINGSHOT]

You cannot help someone who will not be helped.
Educate can be substituted for help.

BYE

 

[TheWizziard]

Ethanol is only used because of the corn lobby in Congress. Does it still require more energy to produce than the final product delivers?

Motorcycles with carburetors that use fuel with ethanol require really steady use or regular carb rebuilds.

My motorcycle is currently not running because of this issue.

 

[TheWizziard]

Yes. When your tank has 20% or 40% water it's going to create issues. No doubt. But in poor regions they can burn 160 proof (20% water) in stock engines.

How big of a buffoon do you have to be to get more than 20% water by volume in your gas tank?

¿¿20% to 40% water in your gasoline??

Would that be W20 & W40 gasoline?

 

[GPSMan]

¿¿20% to 40% water in your gasoline??

Would that be W20 & W40 gasoline?

Specifically 160 proof is 20% water in the alcohol. While you can have 20% water in your gasoline tank, you can't have 20% water in your gasoline.

 

[GPSMan]

You cannot help someone who will not be helped.
Educate can be substituted for help.

BYE

My point as well. As an industry expert, I'm at a loss at how many people just don't care about formal education. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

 

[Dudley]

Put farmers and tractors (relatively inexpensive) and soldiers and tanks in the middle east (relatively expensive) off the table.

At the REFINERY LEVEL ONLY
(Apples to Apples)

To refine gasoline requires 118,000 btu of fossil fuel heat and 6.0 kWh of fossil fuel electricity per 100,000 btu of gasoline produced. (6 kWh would drive an EV about 24 miles with minimal accessories on) so consider that 24 miles "wasted".

To refine corn into ethanol it requires 32,900 btu of fossil fuel per 100,000 btu of ethanol and 0.75 kWh (some say as low as 0.4 kWh but lets go with the higher) of fossil fuel electricity (Would drive an EV 3 miles) so consider that 3 miles "wasted".

So hands down, ethanol by far is more energy efficient to refine than gasoline. Part of the reason is living organisms are doing some of the work for you, and really, truly, producing some of heat for your process as well. The living yeasts generate heat, just like your body does and some of that heat can be captured with heat exchangers to help (not fully) drive the process.

Am I right (at least kind of) in saying corn is made into ethanol through enhancing/using/speeding up corn's natural fermentation process (mash)?

 

[RonFLA]

GPSMan, what would we do without you on this forum!

I swear, you need a YouTube channel to funnel your motivation and creativity. I would subscribe for sure!

Thanks for making this forum more than a bunch of complaining FUD’s.

 

[GPSMan]

Am I right (at least kind of) in saying corn is made into ethanol through enhancing/using/speeding up corn's natural fermentation process (mash)?

In short, it is moonshine at an industrial level. You can drink it before it is blended with gasoline.

Due to economy of scale, it is very cheap and easy to make.

Yes, with the optimized process it can go from dehydrated, years old, non edible, stockpiles of SURPLUS field corn (not human grade corn) into ethanol in about 2 days of fermenting.

Since bio organisms do most of the work for "bio-fuels" it's remarkably energy efficient.

15% to 20% of national transportation fuel can come from this source.

Once the migration to all electric matures, there will still be isolated needs for liquid fuels.

In 40-50 years, all gasoline & petrol diesel will be phased out. Small, short distance vehicles will be all electric.

Large long-range vehicles (planes and ships) will be fueled from bio-fuels.

 

[jsus]

Am I right (at least kind of) in saying corn is made into ethanol through enhancing/using/speeding up corn's natural fermentation process (mash)?

No, you're wrong, remember?

 

[GPSMan]

No, you're wrong, remember?

And this guy ^^^ thinks he's Jesus.

I've asked to be Direct Messaged by him with any questions or gripes and he won't. And he has turned off direct messaging.

 

[BAScott62]

How is this not in off-topic?

 

[jsus]

And this guy ^^^ thinks he's Jesus.

Now you're the one who is wrong here...

 

[GPSMan]

When gasoline is left to sit and evaporate it leaves behind (quite a lot) of sludge, tar, & molasses like thick varnish.

When ethanol is left to sit and evaporate it leaves behind nothing measurable.

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