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Ben Davis Ford in Auburn Indiana is a very HONEST DEALERSHIP. I purchased my Mav through them and the price on the order sheet is what i paid. It was A PLEASURE TO DO BUSINESS WITH THEM . I WOULD RECOMEND THEM 100 o/o.
Now wait just a minute. I'll have you know that car salesmen are highly trained professionals! They are masters of deception and shell games. They never let honesty and the truth undermine their mission. Car salesmen are on the front lines and their comrades such as sales managers, finance guys, general managers and owners depend on them to generate revenue. I can't believe you called them "SCUM." If it weren't for us customers supporting them, they would have to stoop to being lowly ministers, first responders, educators, physicians, nurses, soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines. Please, give them the respect they are due.
Salesmen's Lives Matter!
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What is unique to Ford is this Verified Purchaser program. Making people provide their info and for many also a deposit, in order for the dealer to make an order (at an agreed upon price) that the dealer otherwise could not make for themselves.
Then after 6 to 9 months of freezing the customer in limbo, the dealer, for all practical purposes, steals or hostages the inventory (that they could not have acquired on their own) from the patsy/customer when it finally shows up.
That is pretty darn unique to Ford it seems. I have bought many cars over the past 30 years and never seen nor heard of such shenanigans.
And any brand that allows it to happen is not one I would be likely to patronize, and if it happened to me then absolutely that brand is dead to me.
If a dealer and brand is going to try and screw me over, they better get the attempt over with in a few hours or days so I can get on down the ramp to finding something else. Don't drag it out for months or even a year after taking my custom order and photocopying my D/L.
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Im very much interested in how this turns out, i have my signed Dora with "no markup" written and signed by sales manager and myself. im hoping i dont get this same BS when my hybrid finally comes in.
I ordered though Windward Ford.
I ordered though Windward Ford.
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My Stealership tried to play games also. Several times. I just let them keep telling their stories and producing new paperwork. Every iteration had numbers not reflecting the original "buyers order" signed by the sales manager on duty the day I made the deal, gave the deposit, and received a receipt for that deposit. I never gave that original sales order back to them the day of the deposit, which is what they want you to do.
I kept the original sales order. It was a signed document provided to me, with their agreed to selling price. Why would I want to sign it and give it back and be without any record? They didn't have it in their folder, so they assumed one didn't exist.
It gave me a chance to see how they play the game. And how they played.
First visit was the day I gave them a deposit for my already configured truck. The salesman called me and I offered full retail, tag transfer, and tax. I said if that wasn't fair I could go to another dealer. They said it was fair, I asked for something in writing. The initial sales order was provided, I agreed on the price, gave a deposit, got a receipt and left.
Second visit was about 6 weeks later. Got a call to see if I'd like to look at one which had arrived and wasn't being accepted. They wanted to sell me what they had today, and I was happy to just look a Maverick over in person. I declined the one and said I'd just wait on mine. Then I asked for some "final documents" (whatever that might mean) so I could get my financing arranged and everything in order. Sales guy has me wait and comes back with a new sales order. I don't mention that I already had one.
The new sales order has a $5000 additional dealer markup, a $988 admin fee, and a $500 tag processing fee (on top of the transfer cost). I protest that that is NOT what we agreed to, and that I have a receipt and they took my deposit, and that we agreed to MSRP plus tag and taxes. The sales guy runs away and comes back with another sales order without the ADM but still has the $988 + $500. I say nothing else that day, take the sales order (which the sales manager always signs with a green Sharpie), and head home.
Months go by, and I finally get the email that my truck will arrive. The stealer calls me and says its here. I tell them I'll come get it the next day.
When I arrive I have the first and second sales order, my insurance information, an extra tag I had, rebate documents,and payment documents. I hand the rebate document over to the staff and show them my tag. They ask me to have a seat and offer beverages.
In a while new sales guy comes along with another, newer sales order. I know it's newer because they are all computer dated in the upper right hand corner. It is dated that day. This sales order has $3000 ADM, $988 Admin, $500 tag processing. I say this isn't correct, we agreed to MSRP plus tag transfer and tax. He says they lose money on my XL 2.0 4k at MSRP. He says they mark all of them up at least $5000. I say hey dude, we had a deal and now your acting like an ass. Go get the manager.
New sales guy runs away. After maybe 5 minutes one of the sales managers comes along with yet another sales order, but he doesn't show it to me at first. First, sales manager guy talks. He says they have to sell these at "markey adjusted" prices. He says they lose money on all XL Mavericks, that Ford expects them to make the money on ADM and in the business office. He says they can't make any money off of me because I'm a cash buyer and I don't even want to pay the admin fee, which even his mother would have to pay.
I tell him I don't believe that stuff. I tell him Ford doesn't send vehicles to dealer with MSRP stickers reflecting a losing deal for the business. It just seems they want to make extra money. Like, for example, that Admin fee which the contract very clearly says "represents additional profit to the dealer". Sales manager guy then says "well, you agreed to the fees when you ordered the vehicle, so if you want to refuse it"- at which point I interrupted him.
I asked him if I had agreed to the fees? To the ADM? He said yes, you signed the sales order agreeing to it. I asked if I might see this sales order. Sales manager produces the sales order, does the lay it on the table and slide it to me thing. It does indeed have a signature- a forged signature. It also had that days date in the upper right hand corner.
I snatched the newest sales order up, gathered my stuff, and said loudly "This is fraud! I didn't sign anything, and that is not my signature! I have some important calls to make!" and walked out the door. I had a seat at one of the many places to sit, and waited. Predictably a new face appeared.
This time it was the GM. No more sales managers. This guys sits down and calmly asks how he can help me. I say how about just be honest, honor your deal. Do what you said you were gonna do, and cut the bullsh&^. He says no need for that language, and I say hey bro, your team forged my name, so I'll talk how I want to talk. He says that seems fair enough, then immediately questions whether it's really forged.
I say ok bro, it's clear your trying to get me to abandon my white XL so you can sell it to someone else for +$10k. You've bullshi%$ed me at every turn, and I've got the paper to prove it. I show my license, with my real signature. I show the just-created-today sales order with my supposed signature. There is no comparison at all. I show the original sales order from the day of the order, with MSRP, tag transfer (not processing fee), and tax.
GM man looks a bit white.He pauses for a moment and says everything is clear now, and he'll take care of it all. Offer a cold beverage and says someone will be with me very soon.
New, different sales manager (they have a lot) comes along with profuse apologies about the "confusion". He almost has the sales order right, but forgot my $500 Farm Bureau rebate and credit for my $500 deposit. I'm like really bro, still can't get the numbers right? So off goes sales manager #4 to correct the Sales Order.
This is where the story ends. He did come back with a correct Sales Order, and I did leave with my 2.0 AWD 4k XL. MSRP + Tax + Tag transfer.
I didn't make any friends at the stealership, but I did get the truck I wanted for the fair price we agreed to. And I got to see the asshats squirm.
I kept the original sales order. It was a signed document provided to me, with their agreed to selling price. Why would I want to sign it and give it back and be without any record? They didn't have it in their folder, so they assumed one didn't exist.
It gave me a chance to see how they play the game. And how they played.
First visit was the day I gave them a deposit for my already configured truck. The salesman called me and I offered full retail, tag transfer, and tax. I said if that wasn't fair I could go to another dealer. They said it was fair, I asked for something in writing. The initial sales order was provided, I agreed on the price, gave a deposit, got a receipt and left.
Second visit was about 6 weeks later. Got a call to see if I'd like to look at one which had arrived and wasn't being accepted. They wanted to sell me what they had today, and I was happy to just look a Maverick over in person. I declined the one and said I'd just wait on mine. Then I asked for some "final documents" (whatever that might mean) so I could get my financing arranged and everything in order. Sales guy has me wait and comes back with a new sales order. I don't mention that I already had one.
The new sales order has a $5000 additional dealer markup, a $988 admin fee, and a $500 tag processing fee (on top of the transfer cost). I protest that that is NOT what we agreed to, and that I have a receipt and they took my deposit, and that we agreed to MSRP plus tag and taxes. The sales guy runs away and comes back with another sales order without the ADM but still has the $988 + $500. I say nothing else that day, take the sales order (which the sales manager always signs with a green Sharpie), and head home.
Months go by, and I finally get the email that my truck will arrive. The stealer calls me and says its here. I tell them I'll come get it the next day.
When I arrive I have the first and second sales order, my insurance information, an extra tag I had, rebate documents,and payment documents. I hand the rebate document over to the staff and show them my tag. They ask me to have a seat and offer beverages.
In a while new sales guy comes along with another, newer sales order. I know it's newer because they are all computer dated in the upper right hand corner. It is dated that day. This sales order has $3000 ADM, $988 Admin, $500 tag processing. I say this isn't correct, we agreed to MSRP plus tag transfer and tax. He says they lose money on my XL 2.0 4k at MSRP. He says they mark all of them up at least $5000. I say hey dude, we had a deal and now your acting like an ass. Go get the manager.
New sales guy runs away. After maybe 5 minutes one of the sales managers comes along with yet another sales order, but he doesn't show it to me at first. First, sales manager guy talks. He says they have to sell these at "markey adjusted" prices. He says they lose money on all XL Mavericks, that Ford expects them to make the money on ADM and in the business office. He says they can't make any money off of me because I'm a cash buyer and I don't even want to pay the admin fee, which even his mother would have to pay.
I tell him I don't believe that stuff. I tell him Ford doesn't send vehicles to dealer with MSRP stickers reflecting a losing deal for the business. It just seems they want to make extra money. Like, for example, that Admin fee which the contract very clearly says "represents additional profit to the dealer". Sales manager guy then says "well, you agreed to the fees when you ordered the vehicle, so if you want to refuse it"- at which point I interrupted him.
I asked him if I had agreed to the fees? To the ADM? He said yes, you signed the sales order agreeing to it. I asked if I might see this sales order. Sales manager produces the sales order, does the lay it on the table and slide it to me thing. It does indeed have a signature- a forged signature. It also had that days date in the upper right hand corner.
I snatched the newest sales order up, gathered my stuff, and said loudly "This is fraud! I didn't sign anything, and that is not my signature! I have some important calls to make!" and walked out the door. I had a seat at one of the many places to sit, and waited. Predictably a new face appeared.
This time it was the GM. No more sales managers. This guys sits down and calmly asks how he can help me. I say how about just be honest, honor your deal. Do what you said you were gonna do, and cut the bullsh&^. He says no need for that language, and I say hey bro, your team forged my name, so I'll talk how I want to talk. He says that seems fair enough, then immediately questions whether it's really forged.
I say ok bro, it's clear your trying to get me to abandon my white XL so you can sell it to someone else for +$10k. You've bullshi%$ed me at every turn, and I've got the paper to prove it. I show my license, with my real signature. I show the just-created-today sales order with my supposed signature. There is no comparison at all. I show the original sales order from the day of the order, with MSRP, tag transfer (not processing fee), and tax.
GM man looks a bit white.He pauses for a moment and says everything is clear now, and he'll take care of it all. Offer a cold beverage and says someone will be with me very soon.
New, different sales manager (they have a lot) comes along with profuse apologies about the "confusion". He almost has the sales order right, but forgot my $500 Farm Bureau rebate and credit for my $500 deposit. I'm like really bro, still can't get the numbers right? So off goes sales manager #4 to correct the Sales Order.
This is where the story ends. He did come back with a correct Sales Order, and I did leave with my 2.0 AWD 4k XL. MSRP + Tax + Tag transfer.
I didn't make any friends at the stealership, but I did get the truck I wanted for the fair price we agreed to. And I got to see the asshats squirm.
OK so which Island you on
I'm on the Big Island and have no such issues with my Dealer
Good work! Your story illustrates the value of getting a signed (by both parties) buyer's order showing the final price at the time you place your order -- and taking a copy with you.
BTW, it's unusual for the customer to get out of the dealership with the only copy of the buyer's order. They made a big mistake allowing that to happen, and that is probably what led them to believe that you didn't have one and thus that you were at their mercy.
What I have done is pause just as I am about to sign, look the manager right in the eye, and say "You're going to give me a copy of this as soon as it's signed, right?" So far it's always worked. I've seen a surprised look or two, but I've never been refused.
(If you have the buyer's order with the forged signature you could still send it to whoever enforces deceptive trade practice laws in your state. I would.)
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OahuOK so which Island you on
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Sorry your getting da Shaft from your Dealership, I'm in Hilo and my Alto Blue Hybrid XLT is coming in this Thursday and just finalized my amount due and it's within $16.00 of what I figured with DOC Fees and Registration. No add ons or any other BS from my Dealer and because I ordered it in the very beginning when the Truck was relatively unknown no ADM
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